Post by Zyppora on Jul 1, 2005 13:33:53 GMT -5
jenn said:
zyppora said:
I wish I could tell you. Perhaps it may have to do with the fact that that's just the way I've learned it. It may also have to do with personal preference.Yes, but I'm an arrogant guy, thankyouverymuch. I tend to be hardheaded over things and especially with learning things that prove other things I've learned false, I tend to stick to what I learned first (it's not always a good thing, I know). As with the flat world example, when pplz first heard that the world wasn't flat, but round, how many automatically believed Galileo? Not many. It's the proof that usually brings persuasion, and apart from hints, you haven't brought that in yet.
So again, we see that this actually has nothing to do with accuracy, consistency or any real evidence.
Isn't that what both of us have been doing? The only difference is, that I'm doing it from the heart, and you're doing it from websites that you claim to be credible.
jenn said:
http://..net/minerals/blackmoon/index.html
That link (from the Dies Gaudii website, should it work) covers the naming schema of the black moon family.
Demand’s name should pertain to the diamond to fit fit the gemstone naming pattern. The Japanese write the word diamond as daiyamondo, so his name is not Diamond in the Japanese sources.
Hmmz, I'm glad to see that Dies Gaudii agrees with me here. Not that I'd use it or anything.
jenn said:
If you're interested in the mineral references of the Ayakashi Sisters, you can see my site:www.moonsenshi.org/Information/Mythology/Villains/index.php
The names are spelled: Koan, Berthier, Calaveras and Petz, by the same logic that katakana is used to approximate a foreign word -- katakana is used when Japanese romanization rules are not apply but rather a foreign word is either being referenced or approximated, so to translate the name requires finding out what word is either being referenced or approximated and spelling accordingly.
Aah yes, Katakana + Koan = Kermesite? Try again.
jenn said:
I said many of the villains are named after minerals, not all. Go back and check -- I did cover my bases. And certainly, it hardly makes sense for you to argue that Ptilol's name should be nonsensical because another group of villains aren't named after minerals:a) the group to which Ptilol belongs IS named after minerals (i.e. the Witches 5)
b) all the groups DO have a common naming schema, although they are not all mineral names, emphasizing that all Ms. Takeuchi's names do have a meaning. "Puchirou" has no meaning. Neither does "Peruru". Therefore they are huge violations of the basic rule that the vast majority of the characters in BSSM have some sort of pun or dual meaning in their name and all of the villains are named something related to a foreign word not in the Japanese language.
Huge violations huh? They're the Katakana spellings of their names, how can you say they're 'huge violations'? Btw, who made up these rules? You? Takeuchi? Dies Gaudii?
jenn said:
No, I would write it "Vegeta" because that is the approximation of the word "vegetable" being referenced and spell it like the first three syllables of vegetable. However, if his name were written in kanji, as you hypothesize above, then I would write his name "Vejita" because that would be the proper romanization of a kanji word indicating that it is in fact Japanese.Aah, it seems I'm not the only one showing flaws in romanisation. You're right, Vegeta isn't the Katakana writing, it should be 'Bejita'. In Japanese, there's no 'v'. Instead, the 'b' is pronounced as a mixture of 'b' and 'v'.
jenn said:
Right, ptilol is a pun or reference to ptilolite. But it's incorrect to spell it "puchirou" because that is a romanization of a Japanese pronounceation of a foreign word which we know because it's written in katakana. Uuhm, that's 'pronunciation', mind you. If you do your romanisation the same way you do your English, then I can very much understand how you came to 'Ptilol'.
jenn said:
A logical fallacy:The Japanese ARE pronouncing "ptilol", but they are doing so in Japanese, which has no "pti" or "lo" sound. Just like when the Japanese say "biru"... they're still saying "beer". You can't say that the word "Ptilol" isn't being pronounced by just ignoring the adaptation of foreign words into the Japanese set of linguistic sounds.
I don't think 'pti' should be recognised as a sound at all. And again, names vs. nouns.
jenn said:
You can't point to the dub as any sort of indication of what a name in the Japanese anime or manga should be. It's a dub. Ms. Takeuchi didn't translate any of the names so it's not even an indication of intention. And besides, the dub got a bunch of OTHER names wrong and... also... just made stuff up... Well, doesn't that sound totally awesome to me? Can I print that bit out and frame it?
jenn said:
... and this has what to do with treatment of words spelled with katakana into English?In case you hadn't noticed, I was explaining the names vs. nouns thing. Sailor Mercury is an English term, where Mizuno Ami is a Japanese one. We don't call Ami 'Ami of Water', do we? We call her Mizuno Ami, because that's her name. In the same way, we call Puchirol Puchirol, because 'Ptilol' may be what it's punned to be, but it's not.
jenn said:
And again I point to the fact that nothing but arrogance is fueling this and nothing more, if you're blatantly and arbitrarily disregarding rules for naming to suit your own personal preferences.To suit my own personal preferences? It says I'm doing it to prevent confusion, how is that 'my own personal preference'?
jenn said:
I don't disagree with that, but personally, I would rather trust a service with my site than a person. But frankly, I think you blew it out of proportion when you tried to argue that getting a person to host your site -- out of the kindness of their heart and nothing more -- is automatically the indication of a better webmaster than someone who uses a more reliable, freely available service. That's just superficial and the mark of an undiscerning webmaster if indeed you are.You called iframes "blog-style". That's just patently false... and now I see you're backtracking because I don't think you can point to a single consistent practice in the blog-world of using iframes or anything like that to even qualify your use of "many".
And what does using iframes, specifically, have anything to do with knowing or not knowing how to make a layout?
www.moonsenshi.org/emailsignup.php
There's one reason for liking a host over Geocities/Angelfire/Tripod/etc: serverside languages.
jenn said:
Yes, she does. In katakana.Does that automatically give you the right to change their names? And if you say yes, I'll give you a nice one to change: Koan.
jenn said:
Errr. Try again.See above.
jenn said:
Counter: Ms. Takeuchi has established that almost all of the character names, and especially villain names, are meaningful.Counter: Even if the names are meaningful, that still doesn't give you the right to change it. When someone's named 'Johnson', you call them 'Johnson', not 'son of John'.
jenn said:
Yeah. That's gross. It shouldn't "sound Japanese" but "the Japanese way is more beautiful"? Disgusting.I think this is where you could have used the term 'personal preference', but I see that you didn't. Instead, you gave your own 'personal preference' on the matter.
jenn said:
There's many ways in which Puchirol can be spelled, most of them not even Levenshtein distanced 2 from 'Puchirol'. Google will give various numbers of results if we try those possibilities. The problem is confusion (as I've previously pointed out) over how to spell her name. Even google suffers from it.
So... "everyone would know" if you started a thread on "Puchirou", no one would know who you're talking about if you started a thread on Ptilol, but Google can't list a single English language BSSM site when various spellings of "Puchirou" are used as search terms while ten pages of BSSM sites are listed when "Ptilol" is googled?
www.google.nl/search?q=puchiroll&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
gives me 7 hits
www.google.nl/search?hs=Eg4&hl=nl&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&biw=1024&q=puchirol&btnG=Zoeken&meta=
gives me 422 hits
www.google.nl/search?hs=P1j&hl=nl&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&biw=1024&q=puchiroru&btnG=Zoeken&meta=
gives me 24 hits
www.google.nl/search?hs=t1j&hl=nl&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&biw=1024&q=puchirou&btnG=Zoeken&meta=
gives me 6 hits
That's a lot more than what you claim them to be. Maybe you should put just a little bit more effort into trying to prove me wrong.
