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Post by hawk1 on May 22, 2005 2:32:02 GMT -5
Okay...
This debate has raged between several people back and forth all over SMO. I would like to try to bring this eternal debate to a close orif that is impossible let's debate it out here instead of everywhere.
So tell me what you think about this controversal issue. Are they togather romanicaly? Or is this relationship belong just in the relm of fan-ficts.
To start this off I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I don't believe this relationship has any solid basis in the show.
I am not saying that they are not attracted to each other...there is no proof of such a thing but as you have both mentioned yes Ami is a closet pervert as are most people who spend their lives in persuit of studies and Mako-chan is hot so such a relationship is possible...but it doesn't exist.
If such a relationship did exist it would have been mentioned or at least hinted at SOMEWHERE. Sailor Moon has not been a show to back down on same sex relationships at any point in time. From the get go you have the Negaverse's Zoicite and Kunzite. Also they have probably the most beautiful lesbian relationship of all time in Michiru and Hakura.
I'm just saying that although such a relationship would be possible...heck maybe even likely...it simply never developed at least through to the end of Sailor Stars.
It is and always shall remain the relm of fan-fiction.
Prove me wrong.
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Post by Zyppora on May 22, 2005 2:41:38 GMT -5
I voted They Have Potential. You're right when you say 'there's no HARD evidence'.
However, as we see when Ami-chan and Makoto first meet each other in the Crown, sparks fly (and not just from Makoto's powers). Makoto scratches Luna and says 'How cute', but it is not Luna who's blushing.
Makoto seems to be pretty levelheaded. She's not a blockhead like the blondes. However, during their study sessions in the Hikawa Shrine, it's Makoto who's closest to Ami-chan, who's paying most attention. You'd expect either Minako or Usagi to be needing the explanations, instead of her. The only question I have, is: Is Makoto really paying attention to Ami-chan's explanations, or something else?
We all remember the dance in SuperS. Makoto wearing that ubersexy rose dress. Her date (which happened to be Tiger's Eye) was late and she just stood there, left out, watching how everyone else danced. Everyone else, except for a certain bluenette. Now, they decided to dance together, because they'd feel left out otherwise, right? I don't think so. If you dance with someone for that reason, you'd want to stay out of the spotlight. At least, I would. But they just clicked. They were the centre of attention. You don't become the centre of attention unless you're really enjoying dancing with your partner.
So yes, it's no hard evidence, but the hints are obviously clear.
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Post by hawk1 on May 22, 2005 3:02:57 GMT -5
Ah the dance sequence, I was wondering when that would come up. That is and has always been the biggest piece of evidence that people flag whenever they discuss this 'relationship'.
Here is how I have always viewed that scene when I watch it. Wither I'm right or wrong this is my view.
The center of attention was not the 'couple' it was Makoto alone. First of all the dress she had on was beyond stunning (Hint, Hint: Hawksgirl) and she was clearly the best dressed there, if nothing else that would have caught people's attention.
Second was the fact that this episode was centered around Mako-chan to begin with. She had been the center of attention since the word go in the episode and so of course she would be put in the center of the room and of course people would notice her in that way in order to add to the artistic value of the episode, to reinforce her central role.
Third is you have to remember who you are dealing with here. This is Mako-chan and Ami-chan. One the one hand youhave Mako-chan who has never fully gotten over being dumped by her 'sempai' before her appearence in the first Saga. And Ami-chan who is nervous around people and espicaly large crowds of people. Compound onto that Mako-chan's date not showing up on time adds feelings of nervousness and shame as she relects on the fact that maybe it was all her fault that there was something wrong with her. Maybe she drove this man away...maybe she drove her sempai away. These thoughts become circular. Then enters Ami. Ami who is also nervous and akward in this social situation. Ami who wants to cheer her friend up.
well you get the rest.
My final point is a small one but important.
When you are at a dance without a date you dance with your friends. But that doesn't make it romantic.
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Post by Zyppora on May 22, 2005 3:20:09 GMT -5
Ah the dance sequence, I was wondering when that would come up. That is and has always been the biggest piece of evidence that people flag whenever they discuss this 'relationship'. Naturally. Here is how I have always viewed that scene when I watch it. Wither I'm right or wrong this is my view. The center of attention was not the 'couple' it was Makoto alone. First of all the dress she had on was beyond stunning (Hint, Hint: Hawksgirl) and she was clearly the best dressed there, if nothing else that would have caught people's attention. Yes, her dress was awesome and she was indeed the best dressed person present. And yes, it would draw pplz' attention in a matter of seconds. Second was the fact that this episode was centered around Mako-chan to begin with. She had been the center of attention since the word go in the episode and so of course she would be put in the center of the room and of course people would notice her in that way in order to add to the artistic value of the episode, to reinforce her central role. Indeed. But I ask of you: what scene did you find more enjoyable, strictly from the audience's point of view: the scene where she danced with Ami-chan or the scene where she danced with Tiger's Eye? After all, she becomes the center of attention again when she dances with Tiger's Eye. If the scene with Ami-chan would have been a 'filler-up', as you indirectly claim it to be, it wouldn't have put them as the center of attention. After all, the creators would know that eventually, Tiger's Eye would show up and put Makoto in the spotlights anyway. I say there's more to that dance with Ami-chan than you claim there to be. Third is you have to remember who you are dealing with here. This is Mako-chan and Ami-chan. One the one hand youhave Mako-chan who has never fully gotten over being dumped by her 'sempai' before her appearence in the first Saga. And Ami-chan who is nervous around people and espicaly large crowds of people. Compound onto that Mako-chan's date not showing up on time adds feelings of nervousness and shame as she relects on the fact that maybe it was all her fault that there was something wrong with her. Maybe she drove this man away...maybe she drove her sempai away. These thoughts become circular. Then enters Ami. Ami who is also nervous and akward in this social situation. Ami who wants to cheer her friend up. Of course, I see where you're coming from. You fear being left alone again and seek the companionship of another. But why Ami-chan in particular? She didn't just 'happen to be there without a date'. The only one that actually does have a real date is Usagi. She chose to dance with Ami-chan (or vice versa, not sure). well you get the rest. My final point is a small one but important. When you are at a dance without a date you dance with your friends. But that doesn't make it romantic. You're right, but if you're attracted (in ANY way) to one of your friends, you'd pick them to dance with, not any of the others. I know this doesn't prove any relationship. But you know what Cresh says: lack of evidence isn't evidence of lack.
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Post by hawk1 on May 22, 2005 3:29:23 GMT -5
Well all I can say to you on that is 'Touche'
However I believe we are at an impasse. You can't prove it definitivly true...and I can't prove it definitivly false.
I vote we wait for new voices to enlighten our debate.
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Post by Zyppora on May 22, 2005 3:30:42 GMT -5
Amen.
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Post by yatenkou on May 23, 2005 13:36:24 GMT -5
My issue is always: Well why not? Now there is no hard evidence as you both said against or for this relationship. It's true Makoto and Ami spend alot of time together, it's true you think Naoko would at least hint at it somewhere if it was to be. So we've established that this debate is not canon - it's speculation. Now truly, we've seen Mars and Venus and obviously Sailor Moon be interested in boys at one point. Makoto is obviously attracted to Motoki in both the manga and the anime. Ami is attracted to Urawa who only appears in anime. Now of all the girls (besides the Usagi/Seiya combination) we can draw conclusions based on this and come up with this: Ami is too focused on school. She's not really all that concerned about relationships in the series. Now I would be interested to know that after she develops after she "loosens" up. Ami is a very focused person, unlike some of the others (Well Rei is mildly focused) who are busy chasing around guys instead of studying for school. So really it's in the realm of fandom what happens to them. I'm personally a fan of the Ami-Makoto idea because I think they mesh well.
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Post by Creshosk on May 23, 2005 17:47:45 GMT -5
I voted They Have Potential. You're right when you say 'there's no HARD evidence'. However, as we see when Ami-chan and Makoto first meet each other in the Crown, sparks fly (and not just from Makoto's powers). Makoto scratches Luna and says 'How cute', but it is not Luna who's blushing. Makoto seems to be pretty levelheaded. She's not a blockhead like the blondes. However, during their study sessions in the Hikawa Shrine, it's Makoto who's closest to Ami-chan, who's paying most attention. You'd expect either Minako or Usagi to be needing the explanations, instead of her. The only question I have, is: Is Makoto really paying attention to Ami-chan's explanations, or something else? We all remember the dance in SuperS. Makoto wearing that ubersexy rose dress. Her date (which happened to be Tiger's Eye) was late and she just stood there, left out, watching how everyone else danced. Everyone else, except for a certain bluenette. Now, they decided to dance together, because they'd feel left out otherwise, right? I don't think so. If you dance with someone for that reason, you'd want to stay out of the spotlight. At least, I would. But they just clicked. They were the centre of attention. You don't become the centre of attention unless you're really enjoying dancing with your partner. So yes, it's no hard evidence, but the hints are obviously clear. Gee. . . I think I'm somehow responsible for those points coming up. I'm going to stay out of this one. . .
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Post by SuperSailorMercury on May 23, 2005 20:04:27 GMT -5
Good idea. Me too.
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Post by Zyppora on May 23, 2005 22:20:43 GMT -5
My issue is always: Well why not? Now there is no hard evidence as you both said against or for this relationship. It's true Makoto and Ami spend alot of time together, it's true you think Naoko would at least hint at it somewhere if it was to be. So we've established that this debate is not canon - it's speculation. Now truly, we've seen Mars and Venus and obviously Sailor Moon be interested in boys at one point. Makoto is obviously attracted to Motoki in both the manga and the anime. Ami is attracted to Urawa who only appears in anime. Now of all the girls (besides the Usagi/Seiya combination) we can draw conclusions based on this and come up with this: Ami is too focused on school. She's not really all that concerned about relationships in the series. Now I would be interested to know that after she develops after she "loosens" up. Ami is a very focused person, unlike some of the others (Well Rei is mildly focused) who are busy chasing around guys instead of studying for school. So really it's in the realm of fandom what happens to them. I'm personally a fan of the Ami-Makoto idea because I think they mesh well. www.aqua-mirage.net/aenet/Smile_3-10_029.jpgThat's a page of the Sailor StarS manga as published in the magazine Smile (dunno if they're any good, but it's all I have). I'm sure you can see Rei 'n Minako holding hands. Again, that's no evidence, but it's definately a hint.
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Post by yatenkou on May 24, 2005 14:48:47 GMT -5
www.aqua-mirage.net/aenet/Smile_3-10_029.jpgThat's a page of the Sailor StarS manga as published in the magazine Smile (dunno if they're any good, but it's all I have). I'm sure you can see Rei 'n Minako holding hands. Again, that's no evidence, but it's definately a hint. I don't really think that's so much of a hint as one my think. They are all getting really emotional and if you've seen high school girls (especially in Japan) get emotional they tend to cling to each other. But the topic at hand here is really Ami and Makoto.
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Post by Zyppora on May 24, 2005 22:25:04 GMT -5
Hmmz, well, I felt that it was more than just 'clinging to', but alas.
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elfike
Scout In Training
Posts: 9
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Post by elfike on Jun 5, 2005 4:46:04 GMT -5
Ni, I think not because I love Ami and I hate Makoto, that is a welle reason
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Post by Zyppora on Jun 5, 2005 13:13:33 GMT -5
Hmmz, but it's pretty obvious they don't hate each other, far from that. I think that if given the chance, they'd be quite interested in each other, same with Minako and Rei (although, applying the 'wass sich liebt, dass neckten sich' quote, Rei could also be suspected of being interested in Usagi).
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Post by hawksgirl19 on Jun 5, 2005 20:15:05 GMT -5
My issue is always: Well why not? Now there is no hard evidence as you both said against or for this relationship. It's true Makoto and Ami spend alot of time together, it's true you think Naoko would at least hint at it somewhere if it was to be. So we've established that this debate is not canon - it's speculation. Now truly, we've seen Mars and Venus and obviously Sailor Moon be interested in boys at one point. Makoto is obviously attracted to Motoki in both the manga and the anime. Ami is attracted to Urawa who only appears in anime. Now of all the girls (besides the Usagi/Seiya combination) we can draw conclusions based on this and come up with this: Ami is too focused on school. She's not really all that concerned about relationships in the series. Now I would be interested to know that after she develops after she "loosens" up. Ami is a very focused person, unlike some of the others (Well Rei is mildly focused) who are busy chasing around guys instead of studying for school. So really it's in the realm of fandom what happens to them. I'm personally a fan of the Ami-Makoto idea because I think they mesh well. Maybe there's some sort of bi-curiousness in there since Makoto & Ami were infatuated w/ guys at one point. Hmmz, but it's pretty obvious they don't hate each other, far from that. I think that if given the chance, they'd be quite interested in each other, same with Minako and Rei (although, applying the 'wass sich liebt, dass neckten sich' quote, Rei could also be suspected of being interested in Usagi). As far as Rei being interested in Usagi, maybe you should reread Hawk's challenge post on Sailor Mars. While I have been watching the SM, SMR, & Stars series, I have seen Rei be more sisterly to Usagi than anything else. If anything, Rei's prolly jealous of Usagi being with Mamoru anyways.
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