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Post by Patrick Barron on Aug 30, 2006 23:09:32 GMT -5
People should not deny their love for one another I hurt form with in. If Mirchuri is attacted to a girl. She should go for it as far as am consern
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Post by SuperSailorMercury on Nov 23, 2006 21:05:56 GMT -5
Exactly! People should have the right to love whoever they want, male or female. It would be cool if she were bisexual, then that way it might settle some of these arguments...
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Post by nekosenshi on Dec 11, 2006 11:35:51 GMT -5
Of course Michiru should be with Haruka. I get sick when people say homosexuality is wrong.
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Post by Zyppora on Dec 11, 2006 13:58:28 GMT -5
Amen nekosenshi. You got the right mindset
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Post by yumecosmos on Dec 11, 2006 16:38:26 GMT -5
I'm not gonna touch the whole right vs. wrong vs. tolerance argument, since you guys already know what I think... But Michiru belongs with Haruka, and that is that. If I absolutely had to pair Michiru with someone other than Haruka I'd say (and this is very crack) Taiki. Reason being that they're both kind of intellectual. Also, I always think of Michiru as being the woman in the relationship, and Taiki seems to have no problem acting like a guy. I was about to say Rei, but I think Michiru would look down on Rei and she'd hate that, plus they'd be too similar. If I had to pair her with a guy... hmm, maybe Mamoru? I dunno. ...hey, if people can draw Chibiusa x Taiki pairings I can talk about Michiru x Taiki!
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Post by Lethal[x]Rose on May 28, 2007 15:50:18 GMT -5
I'm not gonna touch the whole right vs. wrong vs. tolerance argument, since you guys already know what I think... But Michiru belongs with Haruka, and that is that. If I absolutely had to pair Michiru with someone other than Haruka I'd say (and this is very crack) Taiki. Reason being that they're both kind of intellectual. Also, I always think of Michiru as being the woman in the relationship, and Taiki seems to have no problem acting like a guy. I was about to say Rei, but I think Michiru would look down on Rei and she'd hate that, plus they'd be too similar. If I had to pair her with a guy... hmm, maybe Mamoru? I dunno. ...hey, if people can draw Chibiusa x Taiki pairings I can talk about Michiru x Taiki! Chibiusa & Taiki Pairing? -shudders- luckily I havent come across any of those yet, but I guess I could picture Michiru with Taiki but I think she belongs with Haruka.
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Post by yumecosmos on May 28, 2007 18:58:39 GMT -5
www.deviantart.com/deviation/17719469 <--Chibiusa and Taiki XD Of course she belongs with Haruka. But if I had to pair her with someone other than Haruka I guess I'd say Taiki or Rei. I might say Seiya since Seiya probably acts the most like Haruka. But Seiya belongs with Kakyuu. *hiss*
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Post by Ayen on Jul 27, 2007 2:59:18 GMT -5
Michiru should go out with a girl.
Though this girl looks like a man from afar.
I know her.
She drives a cool car.
And a cool motocycle.
She pwns at racing in the arcade.
She has nice blond hair.
Do you see where I'm getting at?
If you have no idea who I am talking about then I honestly fear for you.
She should go out with Haruka! Dang it! Blah! Michiru couldn't go out with anyone else beause Haruka would probably kill them. Don't tell me she wouldn't^^ You know she would. ;D
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Post by yumecosmos on Aug 26, 2007 0:59:10 GMT -5
Sure, if you're a purist I'm just saying, every other canon couple has been messed up by the fans one way or another (just look at all the "Should Usagi go out with Mamoru or Seiya?" topics.) Fanon is full of MinakoxArtemis and MamoruxBeryl (need more of that, by the way!) so why shouldn't Haruka and Michiru get their share of AU/crack romance?
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horosha
Scout In Training
Posts: 26
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Post by horosha on Aug 26, 2007 18:35:58 GMT -5
Konnichiwa mina-san,
Mmmm.... I really never really looked at Haruka and Michiru as not being a couple. I always thought of their relationship being a passionate love that gets deeper and deeper as they are together to a point where both trust each other. Their love isn't a jealous type either, at least not in the manga, since they are enough room in their hearts to adopted Hotaru as their daughter and be a close friends to the reincarnated Setsuna. Both Haruka and Michiru are flirts, Haruka's being the most direct flirt while Michiru's is more of a teasing sort. (Michiru flirts with Mamoru while Haruka flirts with Usagi at the same time in S). Does that mean Michiru is bisexual or would've taken it beyond flirting? I don't know.
As a fanfic writer, I could see maybe an argument developing between Michiru and Haruka, one that would get out of hand and might cause a temporary seperation between them, maybe led to some kind of dating by both before they return to each other. I really can't see a perament division between them. In such an situation I could see Michiru dating someone, either male or female.
Horosha
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Post by Zyppora on Aug 27, 2007 6:57:48 GMT -5
Sure, if you're a purist I'm just saying, every other canon couple has been messed up by the fans one way or another (just look at all the "Should Usagi go out with Mamoru or Seiya?" topics.) That's because Usagi deserves better Fanon is full of MinakoxArtemis Hmm, that's an interesting one actually and MamoruxBeryl (need more of that, by the way!) Ohw god please no! so why shouldn't Haruka and Michiru get their share of AU/crack romance? That's because HxM is like the perfect love story! They belong to each other, they belong together, it's like two magnets of opposite and infinite polarity! Like two supermassive black holes on a crash course! Like a keyboard and a mouse! Like strawberries 'n whipped cream! Like pen and paper! Like Ami and Makoto! Like sunshine and beachbabes! It's destiny!!
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Post by Lethal[x]Rose on Aug 27, 2007 9:53:03 GMT -5
Oh of course you would squeeze in Ami & Makoto's "relationship." And although M/H make a perfect couple in the Sailor Moon Storyline, there's always bound to be someone who wants to pair one of them up with another character. Kinda the point of writing Fan Fiction.
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Post by yumecosmos on Sept 7, 2007 2:58:20 GMT -5
I don't know... I guess the thing that bugs me about fans being so adamant about HxM is that the two have sort of become the poster couple for gay rights, so much so that the fact that they are lesbians overshadows the characters themselves. They have become an ideal, an icon, and to deny that they are not absolutely perfect for each other in every way is treated like some kind of blasphemy that undermines the movement. Haruka and Michiru are not a concept. They are two characters just like any other two characters, with flaws and interests and personalities that can mesh or clash with others from time to time. Part of the reason I like those crackish pairings like MinakoxMichiru is that they give each of them a chance to shine without being completely defined by their partner. Usagi is still Usagi without Mamoru. Why can't Michiru be Michiru without Haruka? Of course, Haruka and Michiru's relationship has always been pretty stable. I imagine they've had their fights in the past, and they do have pretty obvious personality differences, but for the most part they are treated as a given, in contrast to all the melodrama of Usagi and Mamoru's romance. A good deal of the story is about Usagi and Mamoru, and you can't have a love story without a little drama. Haruka and Michiru are similar to Artemis and Luna or Kenji and Ikkuko--you don't see them having too many problems because the focus is not on them. When you think about it, throughout the series couples are rarely in the spotlight unless they're having some kind of problem. Anime!Zoisite was most often shown with Kunzite when he was being frustrated over Beryl/the other kings/the nijizuishou, and it was basically an angst-fest for Kunzite after Zoisite's death. Umino and Naru were rarely featured unless they were going through some kind of argument or uncertainty. With the exception of the Princess Kaguya special, which was basically about Luna, you never see too much of Luna and Artemis fighting or being interested in other people (Artemis's weird crush/overprotectiveness toward Minako notwithstanding.) Even in the second season manga when the two meet their daughter Diana for the first time, there are one or maybe two panels of the cats being surprised, and then the focus is right back on Usagi/Mamoru/Chibiusa. (And yet, you don't see Luna and Artemis being held up as champions of feline reproductive rights... ) Cynical as it sounds... couples having a dispute are more exciting than couples getting along. If Haruka and Michiru had a fight, they'd become the center of attention, which would then drag the storyline away from its intended direction, i.e. centered around Usagi. I think that's why you don't see that happening. If the other couples like Haruka and Michiru or Luna and Artemis were the focus, as they can be in fan fiction, we might see more of their problems and differences. In addition, the outer senshi always have that aloof, mysterious air, so we really don't see much of what goes on behind closed doors. I'm not saying that Haruka and Michiru shouldn't be a couple, only that it bugs me when people have this attitude that they can't possibly have any problems or ever be attracted to anyone else--even when the same people have no problem breaking up the other canon couples to pair off Usagi with Seiya/Rei/Demando or Luna with Yaten/Kakeru.
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Post by Zyppora on Sept 7, 2007 6:27:58 GMT -5
I don't know... I guess the thing that bugs me about fans being so adamant about HxM is that the two have sort of become the poster couple for gay rights, so much so that the fact that they are lesbians overshadows the characters themselves. They have become an ideal, an icon, and to deny that they are not absolutely perfect for each other in every way is treated like some kind of blasphemy that undermines the movement. Haruka and Michiru are not a concept. They are two characters just like any other two characters, with flaws and interests and personalities that can mesh or clash with others from time to time. Part of the reason I like those crackish pairings like MinakoxMichiru is that they give each of them a chance to shine without being completely defined by their partner. Usagi is still Usagi without Mamoru. Why can't Michiru be Michiru without Haruka? Michiru is still Michiru without Haruka. I'm not going to say it's a blasphemy to pair her up with someone else (though I might consider it if the 'someone else' would be a male ), but it should be obvious that there is no partner as perfect for Michiru as Haruka is. Keep in mind that these two were basically created for each other. They complement each other perfectly. The anime series portrays them like they're some sort of natural balance or physical law; something that cannot or should not be disturbed. It also portrays their relationship as something completely obvious and acceptable, something that comes naturally and that one couldn't possibly have expected to be different. I think that's also where the strength of the HxM pairing lays. You say they're not a concept, but I think their relationship is the best example ever of this concept not being as hideous and sick as some may claim. Of course, Haruka and Michiru's relationship has always been pretty stable. I imagine they've had their fights in the past, and they do have pretty obvious personality differences, but for the most part they are treated as a given, in contrast to all the melodrama of Usagi and Mamoru's romance. A good deal of the story is about Usagi and Mamoru, and you can't have a love story without a little drama. I'd have to admit that Usagi and Mamoru's relationship contains a little bit more drama than is usual for a relationship, but that may have something to do with their secret identities. UxM's relationship revolves not only around drama, but much more actually. The hardships and how they deal with them are explicitly shown. This also functions to highlight the strength of their love. Haruka and Michiru's love for each other is expressed in a completely different way, one that's a bit harder to comprehend since it is only being completely tested twice during the full series (and only once in the dub); which is to be willing to die for each other. Haruka and Michiru are similar to Artemis and Luna or Kenji and Ikkuko--you don't see them having too many problems because the focus is not on them. When you think about it, throughout the series couples are rarely in the spotlight unless they're having some kind of problem. Anime!Zoisite was most often shown with Kunzite when he was being frustrated over Beryl/the other kings/the nijizuishou, and it was basically an angst-fest for Kunzite after Zoisite's death. Umino and Naru were rarely featured unless they were going through some kind of argument or uncertainty. With the exception of the Princess Kaguya special, which was basically about Luna, you never see too much of Luna and Artemis fighting or being interested in other people (Artemis's weird crush/overprotectiveness toward Minako notwithstanding.) Even in the second season manga when the two meet their daughter Diana for the first time, there are one or maybe two panels of the cats being surprised, and then the focus is right back on Usagi/Mamoru/Chibiusa. (And yet, you don't see Luna and Artemis being held up as champions of feline reproductive rights... ) Cynical as it sounds... couples having a dispute are more exciting than couples getting along. If Haruka and Michiru had a fight, they'd become the center of attention, which would then drag the storyline away from its intended direction, i.e. centered around Usagi. I think that's why you don't see that happening. You're making a few slips here from what I can tell. Kenji and Ikuko are basically minor characters, the only role they play in the entire series is interaction with the main characters (and I remember Ikuko being targeted by the Amazon Trio in one episode). Artemis and Luna, as far as I know, don't have a relationship. It's true that they seem interested in each other and seem to have a daughter in the future (correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that Diana never states that Luna is her mother?), but there is no true relationship between them throughout the series, so naturally the focus can't be on them. We do see the cats getting jealous over each other every so often and having fights and typical problems that you'd also find in a relationship, but I consider those to be more for comical relief than anything else; after all, you don't see many of those during the more ansty/serious scenes or towards the end of sagas. Besides that, I don't think felines' reproductive rights are in a pinch So they hardly need champions (although I do see a fanfic concept here ) If the other couples like Haruka and Michiru or Luna and Artemis were the focus, as they can be in fan fiction, we might see more of their problems and differences. In addition, the outer senshi always have that aloof, mysterious air, so we really don't see much of what goes on behind closed doors. I don't think they need the focus in order to see how their relationship fares. As far as I could tell during the episodes, they have always been quite close to each other and it never seemed like their relationship was suffering from any disputes or suspicions. I don't think they would have been acting as close as they were if they had been in inner turmoil over each other, they're not actresses after all. I also think this because we do see some situations in which their relationship could very well be tested; think the SuperS special for example, where Haruka puts her charms to good use on the poor maid, or StarS where Michiru asks Seiya to unzip her dress. Both situations had the other walk in, but it never seemed to end up in even so much as a wrinkle in their relationship, other than 'the look'. it shows just how much strength they both pour into and draw out of their relationship, indirectly indicating its stability. I'm not saying that Haruka and Michiru shouldn't be a couple, only that it bugs me when people have this attitude that they can't possibly have any problems or ever be attracted to anyone else--even when the same people have no problem breaking up the other canon couples to pair off Usagi with Seiya/Rei/Demando or Luna with Yaten/Kakeru. I think the breaking off of canon couples isn't something to have concerns about. It will happen, whether you like it or not. I get displeased to an extent when I see fanfics that pair Ami with someone other than Makoto, but after getting drawn into the story, it shows to me that somehow it worked out. This also has to do of course with the fact that the Ami-Makoto relationship is not confirmed in the originals. Even though Usagi and Mamoru do have their canon roots, it is still considered pleasant (to those to whom it appeals) to see Usagi paired up with, say Rei. This has nothing to do with whether or not it's canon or established or accepted however. The reason why Haruka and Michiru's relationship is considered so holy is not because it is canon or lesbian, but because it is controversial. During the dubbing of the series, this relationship was turned into a family tie. The dub tried to hide the fact that Haruka and Michiru, even though they fit together so perfectly, were a couple, and made them cousins. Granted, they were made cousins that seemed REALLY close to each other, what with holding hands and all. When this news of them actually being in a romantic relationship became more common knowledge, people became a bit touchy about it. I think that's what you're trying to point out. People who protest against the breaking up of Haruka and Michiru and pairing (one of) them up with someone else, see the horror that was done to them in the NA dub reflected in the new pairing. Whether this is rightfully so or not, is irrelevant to them. I must admit that I'm partially against pairing them up with other partners myself, and probably subconsciously for this very same reason. I think had the dubbing companies left them alone, then they wouldn't have had the 'perfect' relationship they now have in the eyes of some fans.
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Post by yumecosmos on Sept 7, 2007 11:52:37 GMT -5
Luna and Artemis have a relationship. The reason why Haruka and Michiru's relationship is considered so holy is not because it is canon or lesbian, but because it is controversial. During the dubbing of the series, this relationship was turned into a family tie. The dub tried to hide the fact that Haruka and Michiru, even though they fit together so perfectly, were a couple, and made them cousins. Granted, they were made cousins that seemed REALLY close to each other, what with holding hands and all. When this news of them actually being in a romantic relationship became more common knowledge, people became a bit touchy about it. I think that's what you're trying to point out. People who protest against the breaking up of Haruka and Michiru and pairing (one of) them up with someone else, see the horror that was done to them in the NA dub reflected in the new pairing. Whether this is rightfully so or not, is irrelevant to them. I must admit that I'm partially against pairing them up with other partners myself, and probably subconsciously for this very same reason. I think had the dubbing companies left them alone, then they wouldn't have had the 'perfect' relationship they now have in the eyes of some fans. This is exactly the point I'm getting at. The two of them are being treated as more of a symbol than a couple. I kind of wish they were shown fighting more often, because couples develop a lot more through having a fight and reconciling than they do by getting along all the time. But they aren't at the center of the story, so we don't see them in that kind of depth. The irony is that Haruka and Michiru never face any homophobia in the canon series. Their relationship has always been accepted and even admired by the other characters. And yet in fanon, they have been made champions of an issue that the characters themselves never confronted. I compared them to Luna and Artemis representing "feline reproductive rights" as an illustration of how the two of them have come to represent a cause. Although now I'm getting an amusing image of Artemis confronting Bob Barker... XD
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