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Post by Zyppora on Jul 11, 2006 2:10:27 GMT -5
Geez, you guys don't know when to quit, do you? Nope Usagi doesn't belong with Seiya. Usagi and Mamoru have very loyal love for each other, and that is never going to change. What if Seiya had been with her from season one, and Mamoru from season five? Had it still been destiny? Or had Seiya managed to win her love for him? We all agree that Usagi and Mamoru had a rough start (almost ALL through the first season), but Seiya only picked on her the first few eps. I don't think this has much to do with 'destiny' or anything, rather with 'first come, first serve'. Mamoru leaves for ages, and some guy comes along claiming that he loves her, and she still refuses, and wants to be with Mamoru. Whoa, bad assumption. Seiya didn't 'claim' he loved her, Seiya 'confessed' he loved her. And yes, she refuses because she knows that even though Mamoru never sent her a card from America, and even though he never called, she still had faith in destiny. Usagi does not love Seiya. Again, you're wrong. Usagi DOES love Seiya. Just like she loves the other Senshi. It doesn't matter who treats her better, being treated like a princess doesn't equal love, and Mamoru treats her fine anyway. Yes, bickering with them for a whole season sure goes into the 'treats her fine' category. Then there was the whole 'I don't love you anymore' season, then there was the whole 'I like my reflexion better' season, and then there's the 'I love you so much I'm gonna leave you alone for a whole year to study abroad' season. You cant take away the one she loves, just so she can be with someone she doesn't love, just because you think it would be better with her. And I don't. Just because a relationship between Usagi and Seiya isn't canon, doesn't mean we can imagine it to be. Fanfiction and fanart are such great concepts. And it also doesn't matter if Seiya had the guts to confess his love for Usagi. If she doesn't love Seiya, she doesn't love him. And she doesn't. Usagi has risked life and limb for Mamoru, and Mamoru has done the same for Usagi, even when he didn't know who the hell she was (R, ep. 59) because hadn't had his memory restored from final events of the first season, that's love for you. That's not love, that's having his alter ego having a mind of its own. If you don't remember someone, how can you love them? Have you forgotten what caused him to change into Tuxedo Kamen? He doesn't remember anything like that at all, but still, every time Sailor Moon is in trouble, he changes. As far as I know, that has little to do with love (love is an emotion after all, it's something you're supposed to FEEL), that's destiny. Seiya constantly harassed Usagi about being with him (even when he knew that she was already in a very loving relationship with Mamoru, which is a very rude thing to do. Harassed? Excuse me? As far as I know, Mamoru harassed her more than Seiya did. I remember the words 'odango atama' clearly. And if you really love someone wouldn't you want them to be happy? And did he not know the she loved Mamoru and was happy with him, due to the numerous time that she told him? Yet he constantly tried to wreck their relationship for his own selfish desires. He was only thinking about himself), and Usgai still refused because SHE DOES NOT LOVE HIM. She loves Mamoru, and Mamoru loves her. Yep, he sure did try to break them up alright. As Goddess of Destruction said before: Seiya tells Mamoru to take care of Usagi in the last episode. Whooow, serious threat to their relationship.
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Post by Thunder Clap Zap on Jul 11, 2006 4:06:18 GMT -5
What if Seiya had been with her from season one, and Mamoru from season five? Had it still been destiny? Or had Seiya managed to win her love for him? We all agree that Usagi and Mamoru had a rough start (almost ALL through the first season), but Seiya only picked on her the first few eps. I don't think this has much to do with 'destiny' or anything, rather with 'first come, first serve'. Just to get these questions out of the way: One, I didn't say anything about destiny. Two, if Seiya had managed to take Usagi away from Mamoru, I'd of been very disappointed. And yes, they were rocky all throughout the first season, and even most of the second, but neither of those occasions were their fault. And they're still together. Love Faith in destiny my ass. That was faith in love, buddy, love. And she also refused cause *gasp* she doesn't love Seiya. She doesn't love him. She may like him, but that damn sure isn't love, especially on the same level as her love for her friends. You know, you really a crapload of points for this one. I really love how you completely exaggerate his intentions. First of all, neither of them were showing there true feelings at the time in the first season when he picking on her, so throwing that out was a really, really lame way to try and prove your point. Does it not make sense to think I was referring to AFTER both of them tossed aside their little act? Really. And in the second season he only broke up with her because he was trying to protect her. Or did you forget that he was being sent dreams that showed Usagi dieing from "misfortune" if he continued to be with her? And may I mention that he CRIED when he had to break their relationship. "I like my reflection better", You're going to have to fill me in on that one. That doesn't ring a bell with any of the seasons. And just because he left her to pursue his career also doesn't mean anything. Common sense, please. Being in love with someone doesn't you can't go study to get an education. Its either he works as a waiter all his life, or he gets that degree to get a good job so he can support Usagi and himself. Imagine all you want. His alter ego? No. He almost died for her as his regular self: Mamoru. Not Tux or the Moonlight Knight, himself. And no, he didn't change to save her after his memories were lost. The Moonlight Knight (which was Mamoru's WILL to protect Usagi (will, buddy. He wanted to) had took on a form of its own, when the North Pole was being swallowed by the pink light, so that Mamoru could protect Usagi even when his memories were gone) is what kept her safe whenever she was in danger, while his memories were lost. And maybe I should of specified what I meant by that. What I meant is that he lost his memory of her, the entire first season, and his past life on the Silver Millennium Kingdom, yet in the second season his feelings for her were there again because they were true. And in the particular episode they even struggled to reach out and hold each other's hands when the Doom Tree had them held up and away from eachother. That connection they had was love, not destiny. Same goes for when En was sending blow after blow at Usagi. Mamoru used his body is take each blast and keep Usagi safe. He loved her and he didn't want her to get hurt. That's not destiny at all. The point what the he harassed her about being with him even when he knew that she was already in a relationship with Mamoru, and even when she had told him that she doesn't want him. That was a really ass thing for him to do. That is the point. I've already said what I have to say about this. Click a page black and read my response to that.
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Post by Zyppora on Jul 11, 2006 5:07:18 GMT -5
oki will say this to all of you, mamoru leave usagui to go and study i am not saying that is bad, but you dont say that seiya dint whant her to be happy, if you see clearly in the end seiya say to mamoru take care of her and his final word for usagui was so touching. (dont know how to espell that). and seiya protect usagui a lot. and when they say is destiny not all that is destiny is the better for us. Yes, you're right about that. Destiny may not be the best for us, but if you'd notice, I didn't say a thing about destiny in my post, because when it comes to love destiny may not matter. And the only reason Seiya told Mamoru to take care of Usagi is because he finally realized that he wasn't going to get her (and about time too), and so he wished for Mamoru to be good to her, so its difficult for me to acknowledge those words from him. Its basically like, "I tried to steal you away from your boyfriend time and time again, but now that I have to leave, I'll go ahead and wish you well with him." Kind of bs, right? I believe that he meant it, but his actions all throughout the series, and then those last ditch words make me roll my eyes. My reasoning still stands, Usagi x Mamoru, always. Right. To be honest, I think I would have done the same. Usagi was basically fair game. Mamoru left her to study abroad, and didn't even send her one card. He never called, never picked up the phone, etc. Seiya must have thought 'some bf', and decided to take his chances. If he really was as bad as you make him out to be, I'm pretty sure he would have tried to force something. I remember a particular episode where Seiya invites Usagi to do 'something' with him. She's getting all 'doki doki' and flustered, and he actually says 'it must be your first time' and all. But you know what? She GOES WITH HIM, from her OWN FREE WILL. And yes, after figuring out what really happened to him, I think he took the realization of his misinterpretation of their seemingly biased relationship pretty well. Naturally he'd wish them the best and tell him to take care of her. P.S. - How DARE Seiya kiss Usagi. It's one thing to confess your feelings, its another thing to harass and make a move on someone who's already said she wants nothing to do with you, and someone who's already told you she's in a relationship with someone she loves. How f**kin' dare he lay his lips on her. I really wanted to beat his face in when he did that crap. Obviously it was consentual, or else she'd have smacked him away or struggled, and to be honest, I don't remember any of that happening (but that might just be me, since it's been awhile since I've seen StarS). What if Seiya had been with her from season one, and Mamoru from season five? Had it still been destiny? Or had Seiya managed to win her love for him? We all agree that Usagi and Mamoru had a rough start (almost ALL through the first season), but Seiya only picked on her the first few eps. I don't think this has much to do with 'destiny' or anything, rather with 'first come, first serve'. Just to get these questions out of the way: One, I didn't say anything about destiny. Two, if Seiya had managed to take Usagi away from Mamoru, I'd of been very disappointed. And yes, they were rocky all throughout the first season, and even most of the second, but neither of those occasions were their fault. And they're still together. Love I would have been disappointed. Seiya has to go back to his own planet. Naturally any viewer would be disappointed if Usagi would sacrifice an ongoing relationship for a fling with an alien. That doesn't mean it's impossible, or disgusting, mind you. And love ... yes, Usagi's love for Mamoru. We don't know anything at all about Mamoru's love for Usagi all throughout the fifth season, do we? We see him say his goodbye at the beginning and that's it. Faith in destiny my ass. That was faith in love, buddy, love. And she also refused cause *gasp* she doesn't love Seiya. Faith in who's love? Mamoru's? Haven't seen much of that in StarS. She doesn't love him. She may like him, but that damn sure isn't love, especially on the same level as her love for her friends. I remember Seiya being stopped from approaching Usagi by Yaten and Taiki, and Usagi being stopped from approaching Seiya by Haruka and Michiru. Care to explain that one? You know, you really a crapload of points for this one. I really love how you completely exaggerate his intentions. First of all, neither of them were showing there true feelings at the time in the first season when he picking on her, so throwing that out was a really, really lame way to try and prove your point. Does it make my point any less valid though? Seiya only had one season. Does it not make sense to think I was referring to AFTER both of them tossed aside their little act? Really. And in the second season he only broke up with her because he was trying to protect her. Or did you forget that he was being sent dreams that showed Usagi dieing from "misfortune" if he continued to be with her? And may I mention that he CRIED when he had to break their relationship. Well, you were talking about 'faith in love' earlier. Where's his faith if he gets scared away by a few nightmares? Or rather, where's his love? "I like my reflection better", You're going to have to fill me in on that one. That doesn't ring a bell with any of the seasons. Fifth season, first 6 episodes. He doesn't care about Usagi anymore and instead fills up his apartment with mirrors. And just because he left her to pursue his career also doesn't mean anything. Common sense, please. Being in love with someone doesn't you can't go study to get an education. Its either he works as a waiter all his life, or he gets that degree to get a good job so he can support Usagi and himself. Ever heard of Todai? Tokyo University, where the top of the top attends class. Why go abroad, if you have the facilities, the gf, and the life in Tokyo? And where in the WORLD did you see him work as a waiter? His alter ego? No. He almost died for her as his regular self: Mamoru. Not Tux or the Moonlight Knight, himself. And no, he didn't change to save her after his memories were lost. The Moonlight Knight (which was Mamoru's WILL to protect Usagi (will, buddy. He wanted to) had took on a form of its own, when the North Pole was being swallowed by the pink light, so that Mamoru could protect Usagi even when his memories were gone) is what kept her safe whenever she was in danger, while his memories were lost. Then why did his WILL only protect her in that particular season? Why not in StarS? He couldn't be there himself to protect Usagi. He could have sent his own will to protect her in the form of the Moonlight Knight. What's the idea behind that? And maybe I should of specified what I meant by that. What I meant is that he lost his memory of her, the entire first season, and his past life on the Silver Millennium Kingdom, yet in the second season his feelings for her were there again because they were true. And in the particular episode they even struggled to reach out and hold each other's hands when the Doom Tree had them held up and away from eachother. That connection they had was love, not destiny. Same goes for when En was sending blow after blow at Usagi. Mamoru used his body is take each blast and keep Usagi safe. He loved her and he didn't want her to get hurt. That's not destiny at all. That's trying to protect a damsel in distress, like the gentleman he is. I'm not sure if he had regained his memories at that moment, but I figure he didn't. The point what the he harassed her about being with him even when he knew that she was already in a relationship with Mamoru, and even when she had told him that she doesn't want him. That was a really ass thing for him to do. That is the point. Hereby refer to my point about Seiya and Usagi being held back from approaching each other by their respective allies.
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Post by yatenkou on Jul 11, 2006 7:25:06 GMT -5
I think i already posted in this thread.
But since there is a hot debate going on.
MAMORU IS GROSSSSSSSSSSS OMG. WUT A LOSERZ.
Then again I am a hardcore StarLights fan.
BUT OMFG EWWWWWWWWWW MAMO-CHAN NASTIE.
Edit: Sorry I forgot my best point from earlier. INSTANTANOUS SEX CHANGES!! KINKY FUN!!!
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Post by Lucky Seven on Jul 11, 2006 11:55:53 GMT -5
What if Seiya had been with her from season one, and Mamoru from season five? Had it still been destiny? Or had Seiya managed to win her love for him? We all agree that Usagi and Mamoru had a rough start (almost ALL through the first season), but Seiya only picked on her the first few eps. I don't think this has much to do with 'destiny' or anything, rather with 'first come, first serve'. Just to get these questions out of the way: One, I didn't say anything about destiny. Two, if Seiya had managed to take Usagi away from Mamoru, I'd of been very disappointed. And yes, they were rocky all throughout the first season, and even most of the second, but neither of those occasions were their fault. And they're still together. Love Faith in destiny my ass. That was faith in love, buddy, love. And she also refused cause *gasp* she doesn't love Seiya. She doesn't love him. She may like him, but that damn sure isn't love, especially on the same level as her love for her friends. You know, you really a crapload of points for this one. I really love how you completely exaggerate his intentions. First of all, neither of them were showing there true feelings at the time in the first season when he picking on her, so throwing that out was a really, really lame way to try and prove your point. Does it not make sense to think I was referring to AFTER both of them tossed aside their little act? Really. And in the second season he only broke up with her because he was trying to protect her. Or did you forget that he was being sent dreams that showed Usagi dieing from "misfortune" if he continued to be with her? And may I mention that he CRIED when he had to break their relationship. "I like my reflection better", You're going to have to fill me in on that one. That doesn't ring a bell with any of the seasons. And just because he left her to pursue his career also doesn't mean anything. Common sense, please. Being in love with someone doesn't you can't go study to get an education. Its either he works as a waiter all his life, or he gets that degree to get a good job so he can support Usagi and himself. Imagine all you want. His alter ego? No. He almost died for her as his regular self: Mamoru. Not Tux or the Moonlight Knight, himself. And no, he didn't change to save her after his memories were lost. The Moonlight Knight (which was Mamoru's WILL to protect Usagi (will, buddy. He wanted to) had took on a form of its own, when the North Pole was being swallowed by the pink light, so that Mamoru could protect Usagi even when his memories were gone) is what kept her safe whenever she was in danger, while his memories were lost. And maybe I should of specified what I meant by that. What I meant is that he lost his memory of her, the entire first season, and his past life on the Silver Millennium Kingdom, yet in the second season his feelings for her were there again because they were true. And in the particular episode they even struggled to reach out and hold each other's hands when the Doom Tree had them held up and away from eachother. That connection they had was love, not destiny. Same goes for when En was sending blow after blow at Usagi. Mamoru used his body is take each blast and keep Usagi safe. He loved her and he didn't want her to get hurt. That's not destiny at all. The point what the he harassed her about being with him even when he knew that she was already in a relationship with Mamoru, and even when she had told him that she doesn't want him. That was a really ass thing for him to do. That is the point. I've already said what I have to say about this. Click a page black and read my response to that. HA HA! PWN3D again!
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Post by Thunder Clap Zap on Jul 11, 2006 16:24:53 GMT -5
Right. To be honest, I think I would have done the same. Well, this is part of the problem. There's really no point in discussing something like this with someone who see's nothing wrong with trying to steal a girl away from her boyfriend, just because her boyfriends isn't there. Tsk tsk. She was NOT fair game!!! Don't ever say that again!!! Ever ever ever! What part of, "I'm already in a relationship with someone that I love" is hard to understand??? Yes, he wasn't there, and yes, Usagi never got any letters back, but her heart still belonged to Mamoru. Seiya knew that, she made it obvious. There was no conformation from Mamoru that the relationship was over, and there could of been any reason in the world as to why Usagi never got a letter back (and Mamoru had a damn good reason, lol), so far as this goes, she was still in a relationship with someone over seas, she was not fair game. I could see how Seiya would think that he was a Mamoru was a lame boyfriend, but Usagi made sure he knew that she still loved Mamoru, and didn't want to be with anyone else but him. So he had no right to "take his chances". And about this episode you were talking about, he told Usagi to go a park. She did not get flustered at all (in fact, she even resisted at first, telling him the plans she already had for that day (but she did it in a "I'm only listing all these things so that I wont have to go" way), then she got mad in him because he strait up ignored her and walked off on her when she was telling him the plans she had), she just showed up. She most likely knew it was going to be a date, but you know what? While with him, they were on a ride, and she sat staring out of the window thinking about Mamoru, heh. Even when on a "date" (if that's what you want to call it) with Seiya, she cant stop thinking about the one she loves. And when he said "It must be your first time, so I'll lead" (at which point she got VERY uncomfortable, moved away from him, she even ducked to get away from him when he came closer, because she thought he meant more than what he actually did), he was only talking about leading her with the dance they did at that club. CONSENSUAL??? ARE YOU CRAZY!!! Usagi would NEVER kiss ANYONE except Mamoru. I CANNOT believe you just said that. Like I already said, she made a fool of herself just avoid him at the club when she thought he was trying to kiss her. Usagi would never even dream of kissing anyone else. And as far as that kiss being consensual goes, it was not. They were talking, and out of nowhere, he put leaned over to kiss her. You can clearly see that she even moved her head back so that he wouldn't land a kiss, but that jackass, as persistent as he is, moved his head closer so that he could make contact. And then during that, she realized that she had been kissed by someone other than Mamoru, and tears screamed down her face. She didn't try to stop him 'cause she was in shock. Uh huh, yeah, there is more than one season of Sailor Moon. The fifth is not the only season, being that its the FIFTH, after all. We've seen plenty of his love for Usagi in other seasons (Don't make me list every occasion, 'cause I will. I have the dvds. ). And not only did he "say his goodbye" in the beginning, he gives Usagi a little box, she opens it and there's ring inside. A RING! Then he puts it on her finger, then he kisses her. If that's not love, then nothing is. Again, there is more than the last season of Sailor Moon. He's been loving and loyal enough in the past seasons for Usagi to know that he would never turn on her. Can't fully remember that moment off the top of my head, but I know for sure that that has nothing to do with Usagi "loving" Seiya. Yes, it does make you point less valid. Very less valid. You said that he supposedly doesn't treat Usagi right because he would pick at her in the first season. Well, duh. Not only did he pick at her for only half if the first season, but neither of them were lovers in the first season. It made no sense at all for to throw that out. Half a season of picking, when they weren't even lovers, doesn't even get close to canceling out the way he treats her throughout the others season, when they were actually dating. WOW. This was one smart thing to say. You've got to be kidding me? Yeah, he loves her, so those dreams mean crap to him and continues to date Usagi anyway. Then she dies just like the dream shows it and he's left with nothing. He feels that he's the cause for her death when he could of simply broken up with her so that her life wouldn't have to end. Real smart move there. Of course, Usagi wouldn't have have died even if he did continue to date her anyway, be he didn't know that. Faith in love had nothing to do with that. C'mon now, Zyp. You know that he was under Nehelenia's control at that time. That glass shard fell into his eye in the very first episode, putting him under Nehelenia's spell. You could of done better than that. It's shown in the S season (ep. 105) that he has a job as a waiter for some fancy Hotel. Let's be serious for just a minute, shall we? That's like saying, "Why go to Harvard when you can go to your nearest tip top college???" Even though he deeply loves Usagi, and would do almost anything for her, his life doesn't, and shouldn't revolve around her, and he should be able to fulfill his dreams. I guess I should of explained that a bit more. When the pink light from the Ginzuisho was covering the North Pole, the magic of the Ginzuisho took Mamoru's will to protect Usagi and made it into a physical form, which was the Moonlight Knight. In the last episode of that first arc of the R season, the Moonlight Knight merged with Mamoru, thus giving him his memories back, and his ability to turn into Tux again. The Ginzuisho made the Moonlight Knight from Mamoru's will, Mamoru doesn't have the power to create to Knight to do his work if for whatever reason he cant. Ha. There was more in that than just protecting a lady. Clearly, love was involved in that act, or he wouldn't have tried to reach for Usagi's hand. And he put out his arm to reach first. Mhm, yeah sure, there is no love there AT ALL in the entire scene between them in the Doom Tree. I still not fully aware of that, but still, doesn't mean she loves him. Liking, caring, sure. Love, no.
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Post by Thunder Clap Zap on Jul 11, 2006 16:35:25 GMT -5
I think i already posted in this thread. But since there is a hot debate going on. MAMORU IS GROSSSSSSSSSSS OMG. WUT A LOSERZ. Then again I am a hardcore StarLights fan. BUT OMFG EWWWWWWWWWW MAMO-CHAN NASTIE. Edit: Sorry I forgot my best point from earlier. INSTANTANOUS SEX CHANGES!! KINKY FUN!!! What a dumb post.
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Post by yatenkou on Jul 11, 2006 17:42:22 GMT -5
I think i already posted in this thread. But since there is a hot debate going on. MAMORU IS GROSSSSSSSSSSS OMG. WUT A LOSERZ. Then again I am a hardcore StarLights fan. BUT OMFG EWWWWWWWWWW MAMO-CHAN NASTIE. Edit: Sorry I forgot my best point from earlier. INSTANTANOUS SEX CHANGES!! KINKY FUN!!! What a dumb post. Wow - I can't even believe you read it and took it seriously. You obviously are a n00b and/or not done your homework on ancient and prominent members of this board. P.S. If you take life too seriously you'll get wrinkles. And that's just unattractive.
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Post by Thunder Clap Zap on Jul 11, 2006 18:57:32 GMT -5
Wow - I can't even believe you read it and took it seriously. You obviously are a n00b and/or not done your homework on ancient and prominent members of this board. P.S. If you take life too seriously you'll get wrinkles. And that's just unattractive. Whoever said I took it seriously? I just said it was a dumb post. Don't assume, it makes an ass out of u and me. You registered in '02 and have a shitload of posts, the only thing that means is you've been wasting your life here a hell of a lot longer than I have. Don't think anything else of it. P.S. - Thanks for caring about my skin!!! It really means a lot to me!
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Post by Lucky Seven on Jul 11, 2006 19:23:31 GMT -5
Right. To be honest, I think I would have done the same. Well, this is part of the problem. There's really no point in discussing something like this with someone who thinks there's nothing wrong with trying to steal a girl away from her boyfriend, just because her boyfriends isn't there. Tsk tsk. She was NOT fair game!!! Don't ever say that again!!! Ever ever ever! What part of, "I'm already in a relationship with someone that I love" is hard to understand??? Yes, he wasn't there, and yes, Usagi never got any letters back, but her heart still belonged to Mamoru. Seiya knew that, she made it obvious. There was no conformation from Mamoru that the relationship was over, and there could of been any reason in the world as to why Usagi never got a letter back (and Mamoru had a damn good reason, lol), so far as this goes, she was still in a relationship with someone over seas, she was not fair game. I could see how Seiya would think that he was a Mamoru was a lame boyfriend, but Usagi made sure he knew that she still loved Mamoru, and didn't want to be with anyone else but him. So he had no right to "take his chances". And about this episode you were talking about, he told Usagi to go a park. She did not get flustered at all (in fact, she even resisted at first, telling that the plans she already had for that day (but she did it in a "I'm only listing all these things so that I wont have to go" way), then she got mad in him because he strait up ignored her and walked off on her when she was telling him the plans she had), she just showed up. She most likely knew it was going to be a date, but you know what? While with him, they were on a ride, and she sat staring out of the window thinking about Mamoru, heh. Even when on a "date" (if that's what you want to call it) with Seiya, she cant stop thinking about the one she loves. And when he said "It must be your first time, so I'll lead" (at which point she got VERY uncomfortable, moved away from him, she even ducked to get away from him when he came closer, because she thought he meant more than what he actually did), he was only talking about leading her with the dance they did at that club. CONSENSUAL??? ARE YOU CRAZY!!! Usagi would NEVER kiss ANYONE except Mamoru. I CANNOT believe you just said that. Like I already said, she made a fool of herself just avoid him at the club when she thought he was trying to kiss her. Usagi would never even dream of kissing anyone else. And as far as that kiss being consensual goes, it was not. They were talking, and out of nowhere, he put leaned over to kiss her. You can clearly see that she even moved her head back so that he wouldn't land a kiss, but that jackass, as persistent as he is, moved his head closer so that he could make contact. And then during that, she realized that she had been kissed by someone other than Mamoru, and tears screamed down her face. She didn't try to stop him 'cause she was in shock. Uh huh, yeah, there is more than one season of Sailor Moon. The fifth is not the only season, being the its the FIFTH, after all. We seen plenty of his love for Usagi in other seasons (Don't make me list every occasion, 'cause I will). And not only did he "say his goodbye" in the beginning, he gives Usagi a little box, she opens it and there's ring inside. A RING! Then he puts it on her finger, then he kisses her. If that's not love, then nothing is. Again, there is more than the last season of Sailor Moon. He's been loving and loyal enough in the past seasons for Usagi to know that he would never turn on her. Can't fully remember that moment off the top of my head, but I know for sure that that has nothing to do with Usagi "loving" Seiya. Yes, it does make you point less valid. Very less valid. You said that he supposedly doesn't treat Usagi right because he would pick at her in the first season. Well, duh. Neither of them were lovers in the first season. It made no sense at all for to throw that out. Half a season of picking, when they weren't even lovers, doesn't even get close to canceling out the way he treats her throughout the others season, when they were actually dating. WOW. This was one smart thing to say. You've got to be kidding me? Yeah, he loves her, so those dreams mean crap to him and continues to date Usagi anyway. Then she dies just like the dream shows it and he's left with nothing. He the cause for her death when he could of simply broken up with her so that her life wouldn't have to end. Real smart move there. Faith in love has nothing to do with that. C'mon now, Zyp. You know that he was under Nehelenia's control at that time. She had put a spell on him. You could of done better than that. It's shown in the S season that he has a job as a water for some fancy Hotel. Let's be serious for just a minute, shall we? That's like saying, "Why go to Harvard when you can go to your nearest tip top college???" Even though he deeply loves Usagi, and would do almost anything for her, his life doesn't, and shouldn't revolve around her, and he should be able to fulfill his dreams. I guess I should of explained that a bit more. When the pink light from the Ginzuisho was covering the North Pole, the magic of the Ginzuisho took Mamoru's will to protect Usagi and made it into a physical form, which was the Moonlight Knight. In the last episode of that first arc of the R season, the Moonlight Knight merged with Mamoru, thus giving him his memories back, and his ability to turn into Tux again. The Ginzuisho made the Moonlight Knight from Mamoru's will, Mamoru doesn't have the power to create to Knight to do his work if for whatever reason he cant. Ha. There was more in that than just protecting a lady. Clearly, love was involved in that act, or he wouldn't have tried to reach for Usagi's hand. And he put out his arm to reach first. Mhm, yeah sure, there is love there AT ALL in the entire scene between them in the Doom Tree. I still not fully aware of that, but still, doesn't mean she loves him. Liking, caring, sure. Love, no. Once again:"Well said, TCZ!"
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Post by Des on Jul 11, 2006 21:26:49 GMT -5
All I like to add is that he didn't write to her because he was under the control of Galaxia. In the Stars episode something happens to the plane.
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Post by Lucky Seven on Jul 12, 2006 0:09:29 GMT -5
All I like to add is that he didn't write to her because he was under the control of Galaxia. In the Stars episode something happens to the plane. I love you, Des.
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Post by Zyppora on Jul 12, 2006 3:57:15 GMT -5
Right. To be honest, I think I would have done the same. Well, this is part of the problem. There's really no point in discussing something like this with someone who see's nothing wrong with trying to steal a girl away from her boyfriend, just because her boyfriends isn't there. Tsk tsk. ... Let's not resort to personal retorts now shall we? I have morals, just like Seiya does. If I happen to fall in love with a girl that claims to have a bf, and this bf is never seen, doesn't call, answer letters/calls, etc. I'd be the same, yes. Keep in mind that Seiya never saw Mamoru. She was NOT fair game!!! Don't ever say that again!!! Ever ever ever! She's fair game. She's fair game. She's fair game. She's fair game. She's fair game. I can say that as many times as I want, so there What part of, "I'm already in a relationship with someone that I love" is hard to understand??? Yes, he wasn't there, and yes, Usagi never got any letters back, but her heart still belonged to Mamoru. Seiya knew that, she made it obvious. There was no conformation from Mamoru that the relationship was over, and there could of been any reason in the world as to why Usagi never got a letter back (and Mamoru had a damn good reason, lol), so far as this goes, she was still in a relationship with someone over seas, she was not fair game. Even Usagi had doubt in her relationship with Mamoru at one point in StarS. Especially the sayings she did at the beginning of each episode clearly gave that away. I could see how Seiya would think that he was a Mamoru was a lame boyfriend, but Usagi made sure he knew that she still loved Mamoru, and didn't want to be with anyone else but him. So he had no right to "take his chances". And about this episode you were talking about, he told Usagi to go a park. She did not get flustered at all (in fact, she even resisted at first, telling him the plans she already had for that day (but she did it in a "I'm only listing all these things so that I wont have to go" way), then she got mad in him because he strait up ignored her and walked off on her when she was telling him the plans she had), she just showed up. Wow, so getting upset when Seiya walks off indicates how much she wants him out of her life, doesn't it? She most likely knew it was going to be a date, but you know what? While with him, they were on a ride, and she sat staring out of the window thinking about Mamoru, heh. Of course she does. He's her bf and he hasn't returned her letters/calls. It wouldn't be a healthy relationship if she didn't. But that's entirely beside the point. The point is, whether or not Seiya is better for Usagi than Mamoru. Why? Because he didn't need 2 full seasons to show his feelings. This argument still stands. Even when on a "date" (if that's what you want to call it) with Seiya, she cant stop thinking about the one she loves. And when he said "It must be your first time, so I'll lead" (at which point she got VERY uncomfortable, moved away from him, she even ducked to get away from him when he came closer, because she thought he meant more than what he actually did), he was only talking about leading her with the dance they did at that club. Yep. Of course she'd duck away. Of course she'd be uncomfortable. But that's not Seiya's fault. It was her own misunderstanding. You CANNOT blame that on Seiya. CONSENSUAL??? ARE YOU CRAZY!!! Usagi would NEVER kiss ANYONE except Mamoru. Usagi would never kiss anyone except Mamoru, but apparently being kissed isn't much of a problem. Besides, you make it sound like Usagi's some sort of two-timer (and I'm leaving the more harsh terms out here). That's not very nice. I CANNOT believe you just said that. Like I already said, she made a fool of herself just avoid him at the club when she thought he was trying to kiss her. Usagi would never even dream of kissing anyone else. And as far as that kiss being consensual goes, it was not. They were talking, and out of nowhere, he put leaned over to kiss her. You can clearly see that she even moved her head back so that he wouldn't land a kiss, but that jackass, as persistent as he is, moved his head closer so that he could make contact. And then during that, she realized that she had been kissed by someone other than Mamoru, and tears screamed down her face. She didn't try to stop him 'cause she was in shock. I didn't see tears, but blame my memory if they were there. Furthermore, any girl leans back when about to be kissed, unless they start it. And you call him a persistent jackass, but you know what they say: nice guys finish last. It was bold, but it was EXACTLY what I, and many others with me, would do. Uh huh, yeah, there is more than one season of Sailor Moon. The fifth is not the only season, being that its the FIFTH, after all. There's of course stuff like Babylon 5 to prove you wrong, but I won't go there. We've seen plenty of his love for Usagi in other seasons (Don't make me list every occasion, 'cause I will. I have the dvds. ). And not only did he "say his goodbye" in the beginning, he gives Usagi a little box, she opens it and there's ring inside. A RING! Then he puts it on her finger, then he kisses her. If that's not love, then nothing is. Aww, a ring! Isn't that CUTE! Btw, I'm going to ask you to list every occasion alright. I'd like to see what you can come up with Again, there is more than the last season of Sailor Moon. He's been loving and loyal enough in the past seasons for Usagi to know that he would never turn on her. I already stated many occasions on which his loyalty shown through, perhaps the most exquisite would be when he left her for a bunch of nightmares. If that doesn't prove a lack of loving or loyalty, it sure proves a lack of guts. Yes, it does make you point less valid. Very less valid. You said that he supposedly doesn't treat Usagi right because he would pick at her in the first season. Well, duh. Not only did he pick at her for only half if the first season, but neither of them were lovers in the first season. It made no sense at all for to throw that out. Half a season of picking, when they weren't even lovers, doesn't even get close to canceling out the way he treats her throughout the others season, when they were actually dating. Seiya ONLY HAD ONE SEASON! It would only make sense to give Mamoru the same kind of time if you want to compare, or else you're biased by default. WOW. This was one smart thing to say. You've got to be kidding me? Yeah, he loves her, so those dreams mean crap to him and continues to date Usagi anyway. Then she dies just like the dream shows it and he's left with nothing. He feels that he's the cause for her death when he could of simply broken up with her so that her life wouldn't have to end. Real smart move there. Of course, Usagi wouldn't have have died even if he did continue to date her anyway, be he didn't know that. Faith in love had nothing to do with that. Okay, and where in the world are you getting the idea that Usagi would indeed have died, should he have disregarded the message in his dreams? That's purely an assumption on your side. If you have anything to prove this point with, I'd like to see it. C'mon now, Zyp. You know that he was under Nehelenia's control at that time. That glass shard fell into his eye in the very first episode, putting him under Nehelenia's spell. You could of done better than that. When he was un Beryl's control, he didn't hurt her. At least, not as much as she'd have wanted him to. Let's be serious for just a minute, shall we? That's like saying, "Why go to Harvard when you can go to your nearest tip top college???" Even though he deeply loves Usagi, and would do almost anything for her, his life doesn't, and shouldn't revolve around her, and he should be able to fulfill his dreams. I thought you said 'serious'? Tokyo University is not 'your nearest tip top college', you know. It appears in various series as (one of) the highest class(es) of education in Japan. I guess I should of explained that a bit more. When the pink light from the Ginzuisho was covering the North Pole, the magic of the Ginzuisho took Mamoru's will to protect Usagi and made it into a physical form, which was the Moonlight Knight. In the last episode of that first arc of the R season, the Moonlight Knight merged with Mamoru, thus giving him his memories back, and his ability to turn into Tux again. The Ginzuisho made the Moonlight Knight from Mamoru's will, Mamoru doesn't have the power to create to Knight to do his work if for whatever reason he cant. Do you have any evidence of the Ginzuishou having that kind of effect on his will, or is this another assumption? You said there wasn't earlier. I still not fully aware of that, but still, doesn't mean she loves him. Liking, caring, sure. Love, no. Depends on how you look at it I guess. If Usagi was so repelled by him, why'd she want to approach him? All I like to add is that he didn't write to her because he was under the control of Galaxia. In the Stars episode something happens to the plane. Galaxia had taken his starseed indeed, but as long as noone knows that, does that mean Seiya should be considerate of it?
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Post by yatenkou on Jul 12, 2006 5:53:06 GMT -5
Wow - I can't even believe you read it and took it seriously. You obviously are a n00b and/or not done your homework on ancient and prominent members of this board. P.S. If you take life too seriously you'll get wrinkles. And that's just unattractive. Whoever said I took it seriously? I just said it was a dumb post. Don't assume, it makes an ass out of u and me. You registered in '02 and have a shitload of posts, the only thing that means is you've been wasting your life here a hell of a lot longer than I have. Don't think anything else of it. P.S. - Thanks for caring about my skin!!! It really means a lot to me! Or it simply means I'm alot older and wiser then you. Maybe you shouldn't assume - it makes an ass out of you and me. Or maybe you shouldn't jump on people's cases because they don't agree with your opinion - that's called fascism. Either way - I made my point in earlier posts if you're arguing so heavily on a thread it would see wise to do your homework. It doesn't matter to argue "Who is better" since Naoko Takeuchi chose it herself - and a few years back might i add. The fact of the matter is - Usagi ended up with Mamoru. She had his kid and will help him rule his country. Seiya is off helping Princess Kakyuu reclaim the shards of their kingdom. In short - there's really no point in lamenting or arguing the past. So really then - who is wasting their time? You or me?
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Post by Thunder Clap Zap on Jul 12, 2006 12:14:01 GMT -5
She's fair game. She's fair game. She's fair game. She's fair game. She's fair game. I can say that as many times as I want, so there My post that you quoted already responds to this, lol Its rude to walk off on someone who's talking to you, and thats why she got mad. Who cares if Seiya confessed his feelings to her right away? Why should that matter? Its sweet, sure, but if she still wants to be with Mamoru, and loves him, and is happy with him, then that should be enough reason in itself. I wasn't blaming it on Seiya, lol. But that also was beside my point. Please tell me how the hell I'm making Usagi sound like a two timer? "Usagi would never kiss anyone except Mamoru" Ya, thats dirty. If anything, you're making her sound like a two timer by saying, "Well, it must on been consensual" and also when you said, Its just first come first serve with her" that makes her sound like a complete whore. No buddy, she was trying to avoid him. Nice guys finish last... well, not with Usagi. And I'm afraid of what exactly you mean by "it was EXACTLY what I, and many others with me, would do." What the ef??? Many others with you?! Gangrape! No, is Babylon 5 the fifth season? Didn't think so. It might take a while (a long while), but I'll have it eventually. Just wait on me. And that wasn't "just a ring", it was an engagement ring!! What does loyalty in love have to do with him not want her to die??? Nothing! And yeah, he sure lacks "guts" just because he didn't want her to die. I think it took some guts for him to break the relationship. Did I mention he cried? If Seiya wanted more seasons, he should of booked some roles in R, S, SuperS, or the original. Okay fine, since you say its not "fair" to do this one, then lets just drop it since its not going anywhere. Good God, I wasn't assuming anything, and no she wouldn't have died, but Mamoru didn't know that. For all he knew, if he would of stay with her, she would of died. So how can you blame him for trying to keep her safe? Okay, I dont see your point. He was under Nehelenia's control, and thats why he ignored Usagi and piled his room with mirrors. Lol, okay, Tokyo U isn't just "a tip top colledge", it much more than that, but my point still stands. Let the man fulfill his dreams please. !!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not assuming anything. This was explained after they had beaten the Doom Tree, and the Moonlight Knight was explaining who he was and where he comes from to Usagi and Mamoru. NOT an assumption. What? I've been trying to tell you that there was love there the entire time. I was only being sarcastic in my last line of that post, if that's what you were talking about. She's not "repelled" by him, but she did say she wants nothing to do with him when it comes to a relationship.
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