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Post by Sailor Mercury on Sept 29, 2006 4:51:52 GMT -5
Do you know it's by her specifically though?
(fan 'wank' is a phrase coined by a guy my b/f and I know, I just like to use it as well because it cracks me up, hehehe)
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Post by Zyppora on Sept 29, 2006 7:11:20 GMT -5
Manga covers? I don't think she'd outsource work like that. Not if she's a true artist.
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Post by Sailor Mercury on Sept 29, 2006 7:27:06 GMT -5
It could just be "for art's sake" *shrug*
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Post by Creshosk on Sept 29, 2006 10:45:13 GMT -5
You know they have a more polite term for "fanwank" already. It's called fan service.
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Post by engineer on Sept 29, 2006 12:32:24 GMT -5
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Post by Sailor Mercury on Sept 29, 2006 18:09:21 GMT -5
True, true... You know they have a more polite term for "fanwank" already. It's called fan service. Hehe like I said, I just like the term because I find it amusing. I don't mean "wank" in the literal sense anyway, I hope you realise  It's probably better used for fan "work" that's utter crap and abuses all things canon. |
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Post by yumecosmos on Dec 11, 2006 16:26:26 GMT -5
O.o; When I started this thread I didn't mean to start a fight... Yume is sorry ^^;
I wasn't even talking about whether Rei and Mina "could" or "should" be a couple in the manga. Of course they could be and there may be subtle hints at it. The thing that annoys me is the people who read one scene in the translations and then jump onto a forum and post something like "guess what guys in the manga Mina and Rei are actually lovers! It says so right here!" And then a bunch of other people who have never read it at all will believe them, and pretty soon the rumor gets out of control. It's the same for all fanon pairings, I guess, this is just one I've seen a lot of.
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Post by Zyppora on Dec 12, 2006 5:16:34 GMT -5
Well, canon or not, it's the kind of reaction one could expect when one does what the dubbing companies did to the anime. They're trying so hard to get rid of everything that's not 'right' in their closed minds, and the moment someone latches onto something that can be read into in a different way, it's bound to have a snowball effect.
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Post by yumecosmos on Dec 13, 2006 7:25:42 GMT -5
Er... no offense, but I don't see what that has to do with the current discussion. I'm talking about the original Japanese anime and manga. The only point I'm trying to make with this is that in canon, Rei and Minako are not lovers. The manga hints that Rei is not interested in a romantic relationship because of what happened to her with Kaidou. The dub could not have censored Rei and Minako's lesbian relationship because there was not one there to begin with.
Edit: Wait, I think I may see what you're saying. Are you blaming the dub because people will assume it's been changed when they see it and so conclude that they must have been lovers originally?
Personally I think that's a bit of a stretch, especially when so many dub fans aren't even aware of the Japanese version. Anyway, the misinterpreted quote I'm talking about comes from the Alex Glover translations. I think the misunderstanding is largely due to people reading the text without the pictures. People who have the Tokyopop manga could see the picture of Usagi in the background and understand that that's who they were talking about.
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Post by Zyppora on Dec 13, 2006 7:33:01 GMT -5
The dub censored out the whole of episode 2. Why? Because Shingo flipped Haruna's skirt. There was never a relationship between Shingo and Haruna though.
What I'm trying to say, is that there is not necessarily a relationship required in order to apply censorship, which in turn creates a snowball effect amongst 'more enlightened' fans, if you will. Whether or not Minako and Rei have a canon relationship, is never confirmed nor denied. However, I can see it becoming a discussion easily, after Ami and Makoto, whose relationship also finds no hard evidence in the canon series, which became a discussion after Haruka and Michiru, who DO have a relationship in canon.
That's what this is about. A possible relationship between Minako and Rei, sprouted from the wandering minds of fans who have come in contact with the relationship between Haruka and Michiru, and the possible relationship between Ami and Makoto. And Naoko Takeuchi's fan service products are helping greatly in supporting such undefined relationships.
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Post by yumecosmos on Dec 13, 2006 9:01:59 GMT -5
I don't see how you can censor something that doesn't exist. And I don't think fans of MinakoxRei are "more enlightened" since they aren't necessarily correct. Just because there are lesbians in the Japanese version does not mean Minako and Rei are lesbians. (Anyway, wasn't there an interview with Takeuchi-san where she said that Haruka and Michiru are the only same-sex couple in the series? I think she was referring to the anime ZoisitexKunzite.)
But anyway, I think the whole discussion of the dub is irrelevant since this misunderstanding arises from the original. When I started this discussion, I was talking about whether or not there was a possibility of them being together. My definition of "canon" is that the relationship is confirmed within the series. By my definition of canon, there are only three canon couples in the manga: Usagi and Mamoru, Luna and Artemis, and Haruka and Michiru. Okay, and Kenji and Ikkuko Tsukino, but I'm talking main characters. Much as I love them, I would not call Chibiusa/Helios canon because it's never confirmed that they're together, only strongly hinted. Even if it may have been an idea in the back of the creator's mind, unless it was actually put into the story, it's not canon. "Could be" is the realm of fanon.
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Post by Zyppora on Dec 13, 2006 14:16:18 GMT -5
I wasn't implying fans of Minako and Rei are 'more enlightened'. I was saying that those who have figured out the truth beyond the dub were 'more enlightened'. And hints towards something that is not confirmed can always be covered up, or read into when alternatives are given for different characters in similar situations. And yes, Takeuchi has said that they were not in a relationship in the series, but cover art and stray drawings are not part of the series, now are they?
But if you consider it from the original/manga, then yes, I suppose you have a point. And if you don't even consider Chibi-Usa and Helios a couple, I can see how you don't regard Minako and Rei as a couple (even though I never said they were, just that they could be).
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Post by yumecosmos on Dec 16, 2006 23:47:48 GMT -5
I wasn't implying fans of Minako and Rei are 'more enlightened'. I was saying that those who have figured out the truth beyond the dub were 'more enlightened'. And hints towards something that is not confirmed can always be covered up, or read into when alternatives are given for different characters in similar situations. And yes, Takeuchi has said that they were not in a relationship in the series, but cover art and stray drawings are not part of the series, now are they? Okay, I misunderstood. As for the cover art and drawings... yes, those are not part of the series. Therefore they are not canon, and not what I'm discussing here. And I never said they couldn't be. I said in canon, based purely in what is in official sources with no fan speculation, they aren't. I'm using the Wikipedia definition of canon, which won't even allow you to say that Seiya is attracted to Usagi or that Sailor Cosmos is a future form of Sailor Moon, even though those two bits of fanon are widely accepted by most of the fan community. I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I made a comment on this one simple point and I get the feeling people took it as something completely different. |
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Post by Zyppora on Dec 17, 2006 5:12:27 GMT -5
And I never said they couldn't be. I said in canon, based purely in what is in official sources with no fan speculation, they aren't. I'm using the Wikipedia definition of canon, which won't even allow you to say that Seiya is attracted to Usagi or that Sailor Cosmos is a future form of Sailor Moon, even though those two bits of fanon are widely accepted by most of the fan community. I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I made a comment on this one simple point and I get the feeling people took it as something completely different. Ah, that explains it. You're basically thinking in very strict lines. I don't know the Sailor Cosmos story (although it reeks quite a bit towards the Super Saiyan 5 forms that the DBZ community made up), but I think it's made pretty clear that Seiya is indeed attracted to Usagi. Otherwise, I don't think you could say that Michiru and Haruka are attracted to each other, because they pretty much give the same kind of signals. |
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