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Post by yumecosmos on Feb 5, 2006 0:58:09 GMT -5
Wish I could delete this whole thread. It's an embarrassment. Back in my college days I bought into this weird hyper-conservative religious dogma which I think was just a sort of reaction against my parents? With a side of fear of going to Hell.
For some reason I felt really threatened by the existence of LGBT people and saw the need to "debunk" the possible romance between Rei and Minako (who I ironically claimed was my favorite character.) It was toxic. I'm sorry. You are valid and so are your ships.
~Yume from the future
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Post by D'lo on Feb 5, 2006 1:13:46 GMT -5
o.O Wow, you've thought this over alot, haven't you? Well, there's still the other side. Rei and Minako could be lesbians in the manga. Of course, there's also a chance that they aren't. I'm not taking sides, due to my own ignorance of the manga (haven't exactly read it all yet). But that's only one scene. There is another scene in Sailor Stars where Rei puts a finger to Minako's lips in a "lover" kind of way. Could you explain that?
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Post by yumecosmos on Feb 5, 2006 1:22:48 GMT -5
This is actually the same scene as the one I previously mentioned. Minako puts a finger to Rei's lips because Rei is about to say that they probably won't survive the coming battle, and Minako doesn't want to hear that (That's why she says "Stop!" as she does it.) After that they're shown standing close and holding hands, but that doesn't have to be read as a romantic scene. Rei and Minako are very close friends, so Minako obviously wants to comfort Rei (and herself) when Rei has had these frightening premonitions of their death. However, she's also giving Rei a bit of a lecture, telling her not to give up yet. (Of course, knowing Minako, that lecture eventually degenerates into fluff about boys and high school life.)
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Post by Creshosk on Feb 5, 2006 1:25:42 GMT -5
o.O Wow, you've thought this over alot, haven't you? Well, there's still the other side. Rei and Minako could be lesbians in the manga. Of course, there's also a chance that they aren't. I'm not taking sides, due to my own ignorance of the manga (haven't exactly read it all yet). But that's only one scene. There is another scene in Sailor Stars where Rei puts a finger to Minako's lips in a "lover" kind of way. Could you explain that? I'll bring this over from my Challenge #5 entry: In the enormous amount of Sailor Moon yuri d¨jinshi, Minako is usually paired with Rei Hino due to their polar but close friendship in the manga. She can and is generally paired with any other senshi due to her exuberant personality and the image of Venus as a Free Love sort of figure. This is humorously supported by her canonic continued attraction to Haruka Tenoh, even after discovering that character is a girl. It should be noted, however, that Naoko has expressed no interest in a Minako/Rei relationship, and has portrayed Minako as straight. The "attraction" to Haruka Tenoh is more than likely the director's doing, as Kunihiko Ikuhara has stated on multiple occassions that he prefers lesbianism. His preference for this tends to lead him to make suggestions about characters in the series that, according to Naoko Takeuchi's work, are really more of a form of fanservice than a loyal interpretation of her work and characters.
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Post by yumecosmos on Feb 5, 2006 1:34:56 GMT -5
(Oops, is this thread overlapping with another topic? Sorry, I didn't mean to.)
I must bow to Creshosk's superior knowledge on this topic. So... yeah, what he said.
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Post by Creshosk on Feb 5, 2006 1:48:56 GMT -5
(Oops, is this thread overlapping with another topic? Sorry, I didn't mean to.) Not at all. Challenge number 5 was an essay writing contest about Aino Minako. I touched on this topic. This would be a place to go more indepth on it. So please continue.
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Post by Zyppora on Feb 5, 2006 7:34:29 GMT -5
Just to throw in some counterweight:
As with the Ami-Makoto relatinship, the Minako-Rei relationship is never confirmed in the anime, but hard evidence against it is nowhere to be found either. Sure, they chase after boys (Haruka? Sailor Starlights?), but being a closet lesbian just makes you behave rather strange when you're constantly around the one you deeply love but can't touch.
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Post by yumecosmos on Feb 6, 2006 0:28:01 GMT -5
No offense, but I don't beleive that's a valid argument. The burden of proof lies on the shippers. There is no evidence against a pairing between Diana and Cerecere. Does that mean those two are a couple? Of course not, and I've never heard anyone even consider that pairing. (Any fanfic writers looking for a challenge: the gauntlet has been tossed.) If you're going to call something canon, you need solid evidence to back it.
This is nonsense. There was plenty of subtext. I just didn't want to see it.
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Post by Creshosk on Feb 6, 2006 0:47:40 GMT -5
No offense, but I don't beleive that's a valid argument. The burden of proof lies on the shippers. There is no evidence against a pairing between Diana and Cerecere. Does that mean those two are a couple? Of course not, and I've never heard anyone even consider that pairing. (Any fanfic writers looking for a challenge: the gauntlet has been tossed.) If you're going to call something canon, you need solid evidence to back it. You beat me to what I was going to say.
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Post by yumecosmos on Feb 6, 2006 0:49:20 GMT -5
lol Seriously, I dare someone to write a Diana x Cerecere fic. I want to see that XD I should write it myself but I can't write slash pairings... -_-;
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Post by Patrick Barron on Sept 13, 2006 17:45:53 GMT -5
That sounds a little to far-fetched and crazy to me. I have read it and do not interpet it as so.
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Post by Zyppora on Sept 14, 2006 14:51:39 GMT -5
Argh, totally forgot about this thread! Actually I remember setting out to find a Diana-Cerecere fanfic, but I guess after a few days (read: hours/minutes) of searching I gave up and ever since I lost sight of this thread. Anywayz ....
No Diana-Cerecere fanfic, but then again, that's not what this thread's about. Minako - Rei. Yumecosmos has a valid point saying they're not canon and that the burden of proof lies with us (the shippers). First of all, I (and many with me) never claimed them to be canon. If they were, they would have showed it in the anime (like Haruka-Michiru). However, and with Minako-Rei they're less clear than with Ami-Makoto, there definately are hints.
It is of course quite hard to do so, since anything that could possibly be a hint for their secret relationship/feelings-for-each-other could also easily be read into as a hint of simple friendship, which is what the non-shippers would claim it to be and would keep claiming it to be until death do them part.
But isn't that the entire beauty of the concept? The fact that there MIGHT be?! Just like those zealots who claim there be a completely just and completely merciful God (which is a contradiction if you really think about it), so do I claim there to be at least SOMETHING more between Minako and Rei than simple friendship.
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Post by Creshosk on Sept 16, 2006 1:35:27 GMT -5
Argh, totally forgot about this thread! Actually I remember setting out to find a Diana-Cerecere fanfic, but I guess after a few days (read: hours/minutes) of searching I gave up and ever since I lost sight of this thread. Anywayz .... No Diana-Cerecere fanfic, but then again, that's not what this thread's about. Minako - Rei. Yumecosmos has a valid point saying they're not canon and that the burden of proof lies with us (the shippers). First of all, I (and many with me) never claimed them to be canon. If they were, they would have showed it in the anime (like Haruka-Michiru). However, and with Minako-Rei they're less clear than with Ami-Makoto, there definately are hints. Actually that would take us into the different "canons" It would be canon to the anime, but not the manga, take Zoicite and Kunzite for example. That was Kunihiko Ikuhara who made them a couple. However that is not cannon to the manga. It is of course quite hard to do so, since anything that could possibly be a hint for their secret relationship/feelings-for-each-other could also easily be read into as a hint of simple friendship, which is what the non-shippers would claim it to be and would keep claiming it to be until death do them part. Which would mean that it wouldn't be admissible as evidence as subjective validation is afterall subjective. But isn't that the entire beauty of the concept? The fact that there MIGHT be?! Just like those zealots who claim there be a completely just and completely merciful God (which is a contradiction if you really think about it), so do I claim there to be at least SOMETHING more between Minako and Rei than simple friendship. And have no empirical evidence to back it up. I mean there is the whole fact of them wanting boyfriends, and talking about it. With no evidence to point toward there being something... not even as much out of context evidence as the ami-makoto ship has.
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Post by Zyppora on Sept 16, 2006 7:55:23 GMT -5
Argh, totally forgot about this thread! Actually I remember setting out to find a Diana-Cerecere fanfic, but I guess after a few days (read: hours/minutes) of searching I gave up and ever since I lost sight of this thread. Anywayz .... No Diana-Cerecere fanfic, but then again, that's not what this thread's about. Minako - Rei. Yumecosmos has a valid point saying they're not canon and that the burden of proof lies with us (the shippers). First of all, I (and many with me) never claimed them to be canon. If they were, they would have showed it in the anime (like Haruka-Michiru). However, and with Minako-Rei they're less clear than with Ami-Makoto, there definately are hints. Actually that would take us into the different "canons" It would be canon to the anime, but not the manga, take Zoicite and Kunzite for example. That was Kunihiko Ikuhara who made them a couple. However that is not cannon to the manga. True. But wouldn't that also make a possible relationship between Ami and Makoto canon, at least to the anime? Which would mean that it wouldn't be admissible as evidence as subjective validation is afterall subjective. Would you be able to convince a zealot with that? Subjective or not, we see what we want to see. so do I claim there to be at least SOMETHING more between Minako and Rei than simple friendship. And have no empirical evidence to back it up. I mean there is the whole fact of them wanting boyfriends, and talking about it. With no evidence to point toward there being something... not even as much out of context evidence as the ami-makoto ship has. Of course they talk about wanting boyfriends. If you were homosexual, would you talk about wanting someone of the same sex amidst your (assumed heterosexual) friends? I don't think so, unless you're REALLY open and REALLY comfortable with the whole deal. And evidence? No, but there are some tight hints alright. A scene in the manga for example (I know it's been discussed), where Minako says 'we don't need boys'. And then there's the (non-canon) art/images that Takeuchi made, with them holding hands, being in suggestive poses, etc.
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Post by Creshosk on Sept 17, 2006 14:26:41 GMT -5
Actually that would take us into the different "canons" It would be canon to the anime, but not the manga, take Zoicite and Kunzite for example. That was Kunihiko Ikuhara who made them a couple. However that is not cannon to the manga. True. But wouldn't that also make a possible relationship between Ami and Makoto canon, at least to the anime? Not without hard evidence. And none of the out of context or manipulated screenshots. Would you be able to convince a zealot with that? Appearently not. : : Subjective or not, we see what we want to see. Defending the subjective validation doesn't make it any more objective. Of course they talk about wanting boyfriends. If you were homosexual, would you talk about wanting someone of the same sex amidst your (assumed heterosexual) friends? I don't think so, unless you're REALLY open and REALLY comfortable with the whole deal. Which fortunatley Japan is. Otherwise they wouldn't have been able to do some of the things they've done. I mean heck even here in America they can't stand to show it in a childrens cartoon. And evidence? No, but there are some tight hints alright. Subjective validation. A scene in the manga for example (I know it's been discussed), where Minako says 'we don't need boys'. Out of context. And then there's the (non-canon) art/images that Takeuchi made, with them holding hands, being in suggestive poses, etc. Which as you've already said are non-canon.
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