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Post by Sailor Venus on Feb 27, 2005 2:42:15 GMT -5
Hm... A very interesting thing to ponder came over me just now. I was thinking about the manga, Codename wa Sailor V, and realized that there something is amiss--not in the actual story plot, but in the original plot: According to the story, Sailor V is the decoy princess (the "kagemusha" as they call it in PGSM) for Sailor Moon. This is why Sailor V's uniform has almost the same motif of red/white/blue as Sailor Moon's uniform and why Sailor V also has a fake crescent mark. Now, it does work out in the end, but what about in the beginning of Sailor V? What about when Naoko Takeuchi wasn't trying to fit Codename Wa Sailor V into Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon's plot? What was the crescent mark originally intended for? It couldn't have been for the "decoy princess" reason, it would be too early for that, Sailor Moon didn't even exist until later...it must have been something else. What I would love to know, is what exactly was Naoko Takeuchi planning with that mysterious crescent mark at the beginning of Codename Wa Sailor V when Sailor Moon didn't exist yet? Any thoughts? Facts? Speculations?
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Post by Zyppora on Feb 27, 2005 4:50:16 GMT -5
I'm not sure if Takeuchi-sama ever made anything of Sailor V without thinking about Sailor Moon. Even in one of the earliest volumes of the Codename Wa Sailor V manga, we see Usagi-chan and Naru-chan walk into the Crown.
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Post by Sailor Venus on Feb 27, 2005 13:54:45 GMT -5
Sailor Moon and Sailor V Controversy: I believe Codename Wa Sailor V had a different and seperate storyline from Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon. I also believe that Takeuchi had to fit Codename Wa Sailor V into Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon's premise. The most interesting thing about this is that Sailor V had a crescent mark. Officially, the crescent mark is supposed to be a fake crescent mark because Sailor V is the decoy princess for Sailor Moon. However, I believe there was a time when Sailor Moon did not exist, yet when Sailor V still had the crescent mark. Sailor V obviously could not be the decoy princess when Sailor Moon did not exist yet. Question: What was that crescent mark first intended for? What was the original story for Codename Wa Sailor V. I need to prove 1)A period in time when Sailor V existed along with her crescent mark but Sailor Moon did not exist. 2)Takeuchi had to fit Codename wa Sailor V into the Sailor Moon story. My proof: 1)Early Conceptual Art of Takeuchi -shows that at one point Sailor Moon did not exist while Aino Minako/Sailor V along with a crescent mark did -shows Sailor V was the main character while Mars, Jupiter, and Mercury incarnations existed www.moonlightprincess.com/art/infinity/infinity83.jpgconclusion: Sailor V with a moon crescent mark existed while Sailor Moon did not 2)Advertisement for "Bishojo Senshi Sailor V" -At one point, Sailor V's story developed into something very similiar to Sailor Moon's story -Sailor V had a crescent mark while Sailor Moon did not exist -That actually is Aino Minako. conclusion: Sailor V with a moon crescent mark existed while Sailor Moon did not Possible solutions: 1)What if Sailor V was just not related to Venus? Maybe she was first intended to be Sailor V--- which had something to do with the moon. Impossible. In the earliest edition of Codename Wa Sailor V, she states she is Sailor Venus.
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Post by Zyppora on Feb 27, 2005 14:08:11 GMT -5
First of all, I changed your post to make the big picture into a URL. It was stretching the page big time and I dun like that.
Second, it doesn't necessarily have to be a cresent moon on her forehead. As is more clear on Artemis' head than on Minako's, it could also be a 'V'. I don't think it holds much meaning, other than decoration. After all, Sailor V didn't get it because Sailor Moon has it, but because Sailor V had it and she was the fake princess, Sailor Moon had to have it.
Third, what raises a bigger question to me than the cresent moon does, is why Minako has Usagi's hairstyle? I thought Minako's trademark was the red bow that she got in either the first or second volume of the manga?
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Post by Sailor Venus on Feb 27, 2005 15:42:36 GMT -5
To Zyppora: -Usagi and Naru first and only appearance is in Chapter 6 of the manga. That chapter appeared a few months after Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon started in July 1992. Chapter 6 appeared in Winter 1992. Thus, using that as a proof against me is impossible. At that point with Usagi and Naru, Sailor Moon had already started. -The mark on Aino Minako is obviously a crescent mark because Artemis has the same mark...and honestly, it looks like a crescent mark -At one point, Aino Minako became almost a mirror image of Sailor Moon. But, it is still her because not only is it named Bishojo Senshi Sailor V, but also the main character was supposed to be Sailor Venus. More Inconsistencies and Evidence: Here are some smaller proofs that there was a period of time when Sailor V with a crescent mark existed and Sailor Moon didn't, and that Takeuchi was fitting original Codename wa Sailor V's story into Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon's story. 1)Dates -Please note, Codename wa Sailor V ran periodically in Run-Run magazine. Thus, there was definitely a lot of time for Codename Wa Sailor V to be adjusted to the Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon story. There are 15 chapters to Codename Wa Sailor V: Chapter 1: May 1993 Chapter 2: July 1993 Chapter 3: Summer 1991 Chapter 4-15: Ran in an orderly, sporadic fashion. Codename Wa Sailor V ended 8 months after Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon did. Why did Takeuchi have to make 2 chapters after Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon started in July 1992 to prelude the original first chapter? Why is there this inconsistency?? 2)The Crown Game Center I believe it was because she was trying to fit Codename wa Sailor V's story to Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon's story. -Chapter 1 emphasizes Sailor V is from Venus -Chapter 2 noticably carries a Sailor Moon concept over to Codename Wa Sailor V, the Crown Game Center. I think this is very important because this place does NOT appear in the original chapter, Chapter 3. Thus, something is amiss because Crown Game Center appears in Chapter 2 (1993) but not in Chapter 3 (1991). What does this mean? Crown Game Center's Role: In Codename Wa Sailor V Crown Game Center was the area where Sailor V could obtain her weapons from the arcade machine. She also had a crush on Motoki. In Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon Crown Game Center was where Luna set up base and had the arcade machine that dispensed transformation pens. Crown Game Center very nicely connects Sailor Moon to Sailor V, almost too nicely. Now both universes have a common place of meeting. Yet, why does no mention of Crown Game Center have no place in the 1991 Chapter 3?? Did it not exist?? (I understand this is an inadequate proof but its something fun to ponder). 3)Names-Pun inconsistency Takeuchi is known for her puns but why is Minako's name off? In pun version: Tsukino-of the Moon (moonfield whatever) Mizuno-of water Kino-of tree Hino-of fire ...Aino? All the senshi except Venus have their corresponding Eastern planetary names. (In Eastern naming, Mercury is the Water Star, Venus is the GOLD star, Jupiter is the Wood Star, and Mars is the Fire Star). Minako's last name, following the puns thread, should be either (sorry I don't actually know Japanese but these are the three pronunciations of "gold") Kinno Konno Gonno Something fun to ponder is why her name does not fit into the Eastern thread of puns but into the Western thread. Again, I know this is an inadequate proof but it really is something to notice. Why is there this inconsistency? Could this mean Minako's original name was one of those special things that could not fit into Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon? *Sorry Zyppora next time I'll just post the link if the pictures really big. I didn't realize the pictures were that big^^
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Post by Zyppora on Feb 28, 2005 7:57:32 GMT -5
To Zyppora: -Usagi and Naru first and only appearance is in Chapter 6 of the manga. That chapter appeared a few months after Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon started in July 1992. Chapter 6 appeared in Winter 1992. Thus, using that as a proof against me is impossible. At that point with Usagi and Naru, Sailor Moon had already started. I wouldn't know about on which dates which appeared, so I won't comment on this. -The mark on Aino Minako is obviously a crescent mark because Artemis has the same mark...and honestly, it looks like a crescent mark I don't find this a rather strong argument. You're going to have to come up with something better if you want to convince me that it really is a cresent mark. -At one point, Aino Minako became almost a mirror image of Sailor Moon. But, it is still her because not only is it named Bishojo Senshi Sailor V, but also the main character was supposed to be Sailor Venus. I'm going to have to check the manga for this. It's been too long since I've read it. More Inconsistencies and Evidence: Here are some smaller proofs that there was a period of time when Sailor V with a crescent mark existed and Sailor Moon didn't, and that Takeuchi was fitting original Codename wa Sailor V's story into Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon's story. 1)Dates -Please note, Codename wa Sailor V ran periodically in Run-Run magazine. Thus, there was definitely a lot of time for Codename Wa Sailor V to be adjusted to the Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon story. There are 15 chapters to Codename Wa Sailor V: Chapter 1: May 1993 Chapter 2: July 1993 Chapter 3: Summer 1991 Chapter 4-15: Ran in an orderly, sporadic fashion. Codename Wa Sailor V ended 8 months after Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon did. Why did Takeuchi have to make 2 chapters after Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon started in July 1992 to prelude the original first chapter? Why is there this inconsistency?? No comments. I'm unfamiliar with the dates. 2)The Crown Game Center I believe it was because she was trying to fit Codename wa Sailor V's story to Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon's story. -Chapter 1 emphasizes Sailor V is from Venus -Chapter 2 noticably carries a Sailor Moon concept over to Codename Wa Sailor V, the Crown Game Center. I think this is very important because this place does NOT appear in the original chapter, Chapter 3. Thus, something is amiss because Crown Game Center appears in Chapter 2 (1993) but not in Chapter 3 (1991). What does this mean? I don't think it means anything. If you watch the Sailor Moon anime, or read the Sailor Moon manga, you'll see that only a few episodes/volumes/chapters actually feature the Crown Game Parlor/Center. Crown Game Center's Role: In Codename Wa Sailor V Crown Game Center was the area where Sailor V could obtain her weapons from the arcade machine. She also had a crush on Motoki. In Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon Crown Game Center was where Luna set up base and had the arcade machine that dispensed transformation pens. Actually, I don't think it was Luna who set up the base, or at least not alone. In the manga, I tihnk she set it up together with Artemis, but in the anime, you see her talking to the arcade game, but inside, as is later on revealed, was actually Artemis. Crown Game Center very nicely connects Sailor Moon to Sailor V, almost too nicely. Now both universes have a common place of meeting. Yet, why does no mention of Crown Game Center have no place in the 1991 Chapter 3?? Did it not exist?? (I understand this is an inadequate proof but its something fun to ponder). Again, no references to the dates. The fact that it didn't appear might just be because if it did, it may have been misplaced or somethin. 3)Names-Pun inconsistency Takeuchi is known for her puns but why is Minako's name off? In pun version: Tsukino-of the Moon (moonfield whatever) Mizuno-of water Kino-of tree Hino-of fire ...Aino? All the senshi except Venus have their corresponding Eastern planetary names. (In Eastern naming, Mercury is the Water Star, Venus is the GOLD star, Jupiter is the Wood Star, and Mars is the Fire Star). Minako's last name, following the puns thread, should be either (sorry I don't actually know Japanese but these are the three pronunciations of "gold") Kinno Konno Gonno Something fun to ponder is why her name does not fit into the Eastern thread of puns but into the Western thread. Again, I know this is an inadequate proof but it really is something to notice. Why is there this inconsistency? Could this mean Minako's original name was one of those special things that could not fit into Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon? I don't think she was all that much off, but you're taking the wrong references, and thus coming to incorrect links. Perhaps Takeuchi-sama wasn't all that much interested in Eastern astrology: Tsuki-no (of the moon) Mizu-no (of water) Ki-no (of strength) Hi-no (of fire) Ai-no (of love) We all know the story of Serenity and Endymion (if not, it's Greek mythology, go google), so I'll refrain from explaining Usagi's case. Hermes was the messenger of the gods, and the protector of the travelers. Note that the first part meant that he held valuable information. Hermes' planet was Mercury, as was his Roman name. Zeus was the strongest of the gods, he was the king and his weapon was the thunderstrike. Zeus' planet was Jupiter, as was his Roman name. Ares was the god of war. Now, I'd say this is the weakest link of them all, but there are some good connections. A fire is often brought in reference to war, or associated with it. It's destructive powers are comparable. Ares' planet was Mars, as was his Roman name. Aphrodite was the god of love and beauty. Need I say more than the fact that her planet was Venus, as was her Roman name? *Sorry Zyppora next time I'll just post the link if the pictures really big. I didn't realize the pictures were that big^^ That's okay, I'm not one to hold grudges. Just be sure to change it if you catch yourself doing it.
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Post by Sailor Venus on Feb 28, 2005 19:44:23 GMT -5
Dates: For clarification please check here. These are translations by Alex Glover, who I believe, is a pretty reliable source. (He manages "The Manga of Naoko Takeuchi") www.kurozuki.com/takeuchi/sailorv/book01.html(Codename wa Sailor V premier dates) www.kurozuki.com/takeuchi/sailormoon/volume01.html(Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon premier dates) Crescent Mark Mix Up: The anime that was planned, Bishojo Senshi Sailor V has to be based on...well...Codename wa Sailor V. Codename wa Sailor V had her with a crescent mark (which is pretty important to the story) so I am assuming that the planned anime (not manga) Bishojo Senshi Sailor V would not change something so important as to her crescent mark. Of course...I do not know this 110%...(don't you think it looks like a crescent mark?? ) Aino Minako and Usagi: Opps! I didn't mean what I said! ^^ What I meant was that I believe (as in i'm guessing) that the advertisment shows that Aino Minako's pre-official character developed into something very similiar to Usagi, which explains the hairstyle. I think its pretty obvious that Takeuchi modeled Usagi's character after Minako's character. But ultimately, the usagi-ish Minako was dumped for the official Minako with a red bow. (Again that has to be Minako in the advertisment because it is labeled "Sailor V", along with Artemis, along with the uniform that looks like Sailor V's uniform) lets take a look at the very beginnings of both characters -Amino from Sailor V -Umino from Sailor Moon -Hikaru from Sailor V -Naru from Sailor Moon -Both are pretty ditzy in a sense. (Although their ditziness comes from different roots...(my interpretation)) Both sleep late, have very physically alike parents (Usagi's mom looks a lot like Minako's mom). Both do horrible on tests...ect. Crown Game Center Eh...I might be stretching it a bit. I guess you're right, but still its something to ponder. Names For a clarification (and of course proof) of what I am about to say please go here (i think they explain it better than I do ^^): www.xerez.demon.co.uk/anime/moon/pantheon.htmThis I'm not going to bend on. Mizuno- pun on of water Hino- pun on of fire Kino-pun on of trees Kino does NOT mean "of strength" its referring to trees and the wood element. Anyway, Takeuchi used Eastern and Western mythology in her making of Sailor Moon. Here, this is truly, too distinguishly Eastern mythology. Never is Hermes/Mercury associated with water. Yet, oddly enough remember Takeuchi is also Japanese . The Japanese system for naming the closer planets (ancient people could not see the farther away planets) is based on the Chinese system...in fact...it really IS just a translation of the Chinese system. Suisei - Water Star (Japanese name for Mercury) Kasei - Fire Star (Japanese name for Mars) Mokusei - Wood Star (Japanese name for Jupiter) [Think back to PGSM. "Mokusei ni kawatte oshioki yo!"] Jupiter, as you may argue has most of her attacks related to thunder, but think back! Jupiter's first attack in the manga was "Flower Hurricane" and her last attack was "Jupiter Oak Evolution" these are both wood related. Also this is more emphasized in PGSM, the whole episode where she listened to the trees to learn (falsely) that she was always going to be "alone". And just the whole tree symbolism with her (Flower Hurricane appeared in PGSM too ^^) So....this brings us to Venus. Why does her name not use the pun that Takeuchi did for the other senshi? She has the Western, rather than Eastern, name. Her name, if following the pun should be Kinno. (Actually the doubled up n makes this sound different from Kino). Why did Takeuchi choose the Western element of Venus rather than the Eastern element?? Was it unplanned?? Something to ponder ;D On another note: I believe that the success of "Codename Wa Sailor V" led to the creation of the bigger story "Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon". Which is the main reason I believe that "Codename Wa Sailor V" had an original story. and
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Post by Creshosk on Feb 28, 2005 20:04:01 GMT -5
Minako's name pun is off of her first name. Her name minako is "Beautiful little child" Mi is Beautiful na is little ko is child An alternate reading of mi(the kanjio for Beuatiful) is Bi. the same bi that is found in " bishoujo" An alternate reading of ko(the kanji for Child) is su. So an alternate way to read Minako is Binasu which is the japanese pronunciation of the english word "Venus". Personally this Sailor Venus poster here knows quite a good deal about venus. I must wonder now if they have considered becoming the moderator of this section.
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Post by Sailor Venus on Feb 28, 2005 20:29:32 GMT -5
OMG OMG OMG!!! I HAVE I HAVE I HAVE!!! CAN YOU recommend me?!! I might not qualify becuz of post number! XD
*whew* Now that, that's outta my system...
Another point I would like to point out XD (what kinda language is that):
1)One of the things I always wondered would be, if Venus is supposed to be the "decoy princess" for Sailor Moon, then why does Venus have a different hairstyle from Sailor Moon? Wouldn't it make more sense if the Grand Creator of All Things in the Sailor Moon universe made the decoy to Sailor Moon look more like Sailor Moon? If Venus's job was to be a decoy (which I find truly saddening because that is like living in the shadow of someone...ok wait off topic) then it would make A LOT more sense to have her be a carbon copy of Sailor Moon. Didn't the Grand Creator of All Things in the Sailor Moon Universe realize that after a few dalliances with the Sailor Team, any "bad guy" could figure out which one was Sailor Venus and which one was Sailor Moon? ---So to reiterate, wouldn't it make more sense to make Sailor Venus at least have the same hairstyle as Sailor Moon? So bad guys could make that mistake?
*On the same note, in episode 102, Sailor Venus dressed up as Sailor Moon. To any...person with the ability of sight, Sailor "Venusmoon" looked totally different from Sailor Moon! This shows that Venus and Moon were too different in looks (and hair length) to be doubles of each other.
A-ha! Which leads me to realize:
One of the things that Takeuchi could definitely not change while adjusting her story of Codename Wa Sailor V, was Minako's trademark bow. Yet, she had to make her the "decoy princess" in order for the story to work out.
Could the difference in hairstyle of Venus and Moon expose one of the flawed results of adjusting Codename Wa Sailor V to Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon?
Something to ponder!
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Post by Zyppora on Mar 1, 2005 5:27:50 GMT -5
I'll check this out later. Crescent Mark Mix Up: The anime that was planned, Bishojo Senshi Sailor V has to be based on...well...Codename wa Sailor V. Codename wa Sailor V had her with a crescent mark (which is pretty important to the story) so I am assuming that the planned anime (not manga) Bishojo Senshi Sailor V would not change something so important as to her crescent mark. Of course...I do not know this 110%...(don't you think it looks like a crescent mark?? ) I don't see HOW the cresent mark is important. Like I said, I find it more decorative than anything else. Also, let's say the Sailor V story was out before the Sailor Moon story. Who in the world would try to fit Sailor V into Sailor Moon, when it's 10 10 times more easy to fit Sailor Moon into Sailor V? It's not 'Sailor Moon has a cresent mark, so Sailor V has to have one too', but 'Sailor Ve has a cresent mark, so Sailor moon has to have one too'. That's what I think. Aino Minako and Usagi: Opps! I didn't mean what I said! ^^ What I meant was that I believe (as in i'm guessing) that the advertisment shows that Aino Minako's pre-official character developed into something very similiar to Usagi, which explains the hairstyle. I think its pretty obvious that Takeuchi modeled Usagi's character after Minako's character. But ultimately, the usagi-ish Minako was dumped for the official Minako with a red bow. (Again that has to be Minako in the advertisment because it is labeled "Sailor V", along with Artemis, along with the uniform that looks like Sailor V's uniform) I don't doubt that it's Minako indeed, but on the hairstyle, I was just thinking maybe the creator would mess around a bit, come up with different hairstyles (odangoes, red bow) and pick one (red bow). After that and a few volumes, another idea strikes them (Sailor Moon), and they pick a second look (odangoes) to go with her. lets take a look at the very beginnings of both characters -Amino from Sailor V -Umino from Sailor Moon -Hikaru from Sailor V -Naru from Sailor Moon -Both are pretty ditzy in a sense. (Although their ditziness comes from different roots...(my interpretation)) Both sleep late, have very physically alike parents (Usagi's mom looks a lot like Minako's mom). Both do horrible on tests...ect. Yes, Amino-Umino and Hikaru (although she looks a LOT like Ami-chan)-Naru are matching characters, I think. They represent the innocence and friendship of the normal person behind the mask of the superhero. Simply because they found it acceptable to use similar characters. Like I said, Umino could be taken off of Amino, and not the other way around. Crown Game Center Eh...I might be stretching it a bit. I guess you're right, but still its something to ponder. Indeed, but doesn't necessarily mean anything. Names For a clarification (and of course proof) of what I am about to say please go here (i think they explain it better than I do ^^): www.xerez.demon.co.uk/anime/moon/pantheon.htmThis I'm not going to bend on. Mizuno- pun on of water Hino- pun on of fire Kino-pun on of trees Kino does NOT mean "of strength" its referring to trees and the wood element. If you've ever watched Dragonball Z (or GT), you'll see that 'Ki' means energy or strength. It's what the DBZ power levels are based on. You should keep in mind that the word 'Ki' means various things in Japanese. It means both 'tree/wood' and 'energy/strength'. Now, I think we're both a bit right. Mako-chan's element is wood, her planet is Mokusei (planet of the trees), as is explained in PGSM. But she's also very strong, a real amazoness, her secondary element is thunder, and that associates her to Zeus/Jupiter, the king of the gods in Greek/Roman mythology, the one to wield the thunderstrike as his weapon.
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Post by Zyppora on Mar 1, 2005 5:28:02 GMT -5
Anyway, Takeuchi used Eastern and Western mythology in her making of Sailor Moon. Here, this is truly, too distinguishly Eastern mythology. Never is Hermes/Mercury associated with water. Yet, oddly enough remember Takeuchi is also Japanese . The Japanese system for naming the closer planets (ancient people could not see the farther away planets) is based on the Chinese system...in fact...it really IS just a translation of the Chinese system. Suisei - Water Star (Japanese name for Mercury) Kasei - Fire Star (Japanese name for Mars) Mokusei - Wood Star (Japanese name for Jupiter) Aren't you contradicting yourself here? First you say ' Never is Hermes/Mercury associated with water.' and then you say 'Suisei - Water Star (Japanese name for Mercury)'. Smells fishy. [Think back to PGSM. "Mokusei ni kawatte oshioki yo!"] Jupiter, as you may argue has most of her attacks related to thunder, but think back! Jupiter's first attack in the manga was "Flower Hurricane" and her last attack was "Jupiter Oak Evolution" these are both wood related. Also this is more emphasized in PGSM, the whole episode where she listened to the trees to learn (falsely) that she was always going to be "alone". And just the whole tree symbolism with her (Flower Hurricane appeared in PGSM too ^^) I refer to my quotes above in this post. So....this brings us to Venus. Why does her name not use the pun that Takeuchi did for the other senshi? She has the Western, rather than Eastern, name. Her name, if following the pun should be Kinno. (Actually the doubled up n makes this sound different from Kino). Why did Takeuchi choose the Western element of Venus rather than the Eastern element?? Was it unplanned?? Something to ponder ;D I think she chose the Western element originally, as she made Sailor V, and then, for some reason (for example, lack of knowledge about the Western mythology or somethin), used the Eastern element on the senshi of Sailor Moon. I must admit the Eastern mythology is better linked to the Senshi than the Western, but yes, it's something to ponder alright. On another note: I believe that the success of "Codename Wa Sailor V" led to the creation of the bigger story "Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon". Which is the main reason I believe that "Codename Wa Sailor V" had an original story. Perhaps Codename wa Sailor V didn't have an original story, but was the original story. Not sure though, I haven't read it fully yet. OMG OMG OMG!!! I HAVE I HAVE I HAVE!!! CAN YOU recommend me?!! I might not qualify becuz of post number! XD *whew* Now that, that's outta my system... oO Another point I would like to point out XD (what kinda language is that): 1)One of the things I always wondered would be, if Venus is supposed to be the "decoy princess" for Sailor Moon, then why does Venus have a different hairstyle from Sailor Moon? Wouldn't it make more sense if the Grand Creator of All Things in the Sailor Moon universe made the decoy to Sailor Moon look more like Sailor Moon? If Venus's job was to be a decoy (which I find truly saddening because that is like living in the shadow of someone...ok wait off topic) then it would make A LOT more sense to have her be a carbon copy of Sailor Moon. Didn't the Grand Creator of All Things in the Sailor Moon Universe realize that after a few dalliances with the Sailor Team, any "bad guy" could figure out which one was Sailor Venus and which one was Sailor Moon? ---So to reiterate, wouldn't it make more sense to make Sailor Venus at least have the same hairstyle as Sailor Moon? So bad guys could make that mistake? I don't think so. As we all know, it doesn't take a whole lot of disguise to make someone unrecognisable in series like this. Perhaps the length and color of their hair would be enough, along with identical clothes and masks? As we all know, Sailor V wore the EXACT same costume as Sailor Moon does in the first volumes of Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon. *On the same note, in episode 102, Sailor Venus dressed up as Sailor Moon. To any...person with the ability of sight, Sailor "Venusmoon" looked totally different from Sailor Moon! This shows that Venus and Moon were too different in looks (and hair length) to be doubles of each other. A-ha! Which leads me to realize: One of the things that Takeuchi could definitely not change while adjusting her story of Codename Wa Sailor V, was Minako's trademark bow. Yet, she had to make her the "decoy princess" in order for the story to work out. Could the difference in hairstyle of Venus and Moon expose one of the flawed results of adjusting Codename Wa Sailor V to Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon? Something to ponder! I'm wondering if the 'decoy princess' factor is all that important. It seemed, from watching the anime, that noone knew who Sailor Moon was when she first appeared, only Queen Beryl had heard of her.
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Post by Creshosk on Mar 1, 2005 15:51:27 GMT -5
If you've ever watched Dragonball Z (or GT), you'll see that 'Ki' means energy or strength. It's what the DBZ power levels are based on. You should keep in mind that the word 'Ki' means various things in Japanese. It means both 'tree/wood' and 'energy/strength'. Now, I think we're both a bit right. Mako-chan's element is wood, her planet is Mokusei (planet of the trees), as is explained in PGSM. But she's also very strong, a real amazoness, her secondary element is thunder, and that associates her to Zeus/Jupiter, the king of the gods in Greek/Roman mythology, the one to wield the thunderstrike as his weapon. This symbol is read as Ki( or BOKU, MOKU, ko-, gu, mo or moto) , it means tree, this symbol does not mean "strength" or "spirit" or power. it ONLY means tree or wood. This is the symbol that is in Makoto's last name as "kino" so her 'ki' in her name ONLY means "tree" or "wood". Nothing else.
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Post by Creshosk on Mar 1, 2005 15:52:58 GMT -5
OMG OMG OMG!!! I HAVE I HAVE I HAVE!!! CAN YOU recommend me?!! I might not qualify becuz of post number! XD Get your post count up. That and potentially how long you've been registered. But I think this shows you have alot of knowledge on the subject. I'm not in charge of a moderator being assigned to this section, But I'll put in a good word for ya.
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Post by Sailor Venus on Mar 1, 2005 19:10:33 GMT -5
My intention of starting this thread was actually not to debate whether or not Codename Wa Sailor V had an original story or not (because I assumed everyone would think it did) but to find out what everybody thought the original story would be. (Personally, I thought that the original story may be that Venus is a mixed child of moon/venus blood ha...) Anyway, it has gotten fun so I'll just continue. Sailor V did NOT wear the same costume as Sailor Moon. Sailor V: (manga) yume.impolite.org/dic/studios/minako02.jpgmangastyle.net/materials/mat-12.jpgSailor V: (anime) www.tokyoland.de/sailorV-chan.jpgSailor Moon: (manga; a few versions because Takeuchi wavered on the uniform and these are early versions btw (esp the Materials Collection one)) mangastyle.net/book1/1-06.jpgmangastyle.net/book1/1-35-36B.jpgmangastyle.net/book1/1-31.jpg This is the official uniform mangastyle.net/materials/mat-04.jpgSailor Moon (anime) www.loveofanime.com/Moon_giving_peace_sign_to_eyes.gifwww.loveofanime.com/open_hearted_moon_holding_locket_AN.jpgSailor V and Sailor Moon crystalserenety.cr.funpic.de/Gallerie/SailorMoon/telephone-sailor-v-and-sailormoon.jpgClearly, they are not, and never were the same. I think the pictures are pretty self-explanatory. Of course the crescent mark is important! Where would Sailor Moon be with a sign of Mercury on her head? She would be Sailor Mercury! Likewise, if the crescent mark was never intended to be fake, then that means Sailor V was the original Sailor Moon. Also, just as a Sailor Moon fan, having an original and undiscovered story is...quite....amazing. Opps again! I should have re-read my post. What I really meant (this is a problem of ambiguity) is that Western Hermes=Mercury the god Mercury the god [relates to]------Mercury the planet Mercury the god is never associated with water Eastern Mercury the planet---never is known as Mercury the Roman God Mercury the planet is named the literally the "Water Star" (stars=planets in Eastern astronomy) therefore (apply this to Mercury, Mars and Jupiter) all of the elements that these senshi used are based on Eastern mythology Personally, I am VERY intrigued by the "decoy princess" factor. I never heard of this kind of "premise" before for a story and I really like the first arc of Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon. I do not believe it is a super-duper-important part of the story, the anime did leave the decoy princess idea totally out of the series, but it is certainly very very interesting which is why I love talking about it. (Queen Beryl had not "heard" of Sailor Moon because Sailor Moon never existed on the Moon Kingdom, she was Princess Serenity. After, (with a little foreshadowing before) Sailor Moon transforms into Princess Serenity and Queen Beryl realizes who she really is.
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Post by Sailor Venus on Mar 1, 2005 20:13:10 GMT -5
Wow this thread really has sparked my interest! On the same note, (this whole Sailor V/Moon debate here), why do you think that the Princess of Venus (Sailor Venus) was given a cat related to the Moon? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a cat born of Venus? (ie with a Venus sign on his forehead)? The Venus-Moon connection is just soo interesting to me I can't help talking about it XD
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