This Whole Messiah Business...

[Sailor Venus]

Messiah.

Two or One?

Saturn&Moon or Saturn or Moon?


I love Saturn but her whole background is too confusing. Someone explain this to me XD

[Zyppora]

Hmmz, as far as I know, Saturn is the Messiah, even though Moon gets the Grail. Saturn was possessed by Mistress 9, who used the Grail to bring Pharao 90 to earth. Argh ... I'm not sure anymore ...

[Creshosk]

There are two messiahs of sorts. Saturn possesed by the entity Mistress nine was the messiah of silence. Sailor Moon being another messiah. . .

Basically it's like a power struggle, put the holy grail in one or the other's hands and that team wins. . .

I really can't explain what's in my head at this point in time since it's compposed of images, rather than words. . .

[Zyppora]

Hmmz, I don't think Mistress 9 would have any influence on Saturn being the Messiah of Silence. Why else would she have attacks like Silent Glaive Surprise or Silent Wall?

[Creshosk]

Zyppora said:

Hmmz, I don't think Mistress 9 would have any influence on Saturn being the Messiah of Silence. Why else would she have attacks like Silent Glaive Surprise or Silent Wall?

The entity Mistress 9 had a personality influence on Saturn. Obviously without Mistress 9 Saturn is good guy. . .and ofcourse with Mistress 9 . . she was. . .well . . .

[Zyppora]

Well, do you think the influence would go as far as to affect Sailor Saturn's attacks?

[Creshosk]

Zyppora said:

Well, do you think the influence would go as far as to affect Sailor Saturn's attacks?

Potentially. . . as I don't recall seeing Mistress nine actually use them. . . she still had her mistress nine powers.

[Sailor Venus]

Anime

I just watched the last few episodes of S, and read Dies Gaudii's explanation.

It seems that the Messiah of Silence should work together with the Death Busters, and should...well...be evil.

Thus the Messiah of Silence is Mistress 9 in the anime.

Super Sailor Moon, then, should be the...Messiah...(do they just call it the Messiah?). The true Messiah should have butterfly wings and be able to use the Grail. In Super Sailor Moon's transformation she is shown as having butterfly wings and obviously she can use the Grail.

Thus, the Messiah (of Goodness??) is Super Sailor Moon in the anime.


(Therefore, Saturn has no direct relation to the messiah in the anime...shocking isn't it?)



Manga:

Here's the part I'm confused about....someone explain.

[Zyppora]

Well, now that I think about it, Saturn may not be the messiah of silence. We all see how Mistress 9 gets her hands on the Grail and simply uses it to summon Pharao 90, not to destroy the world (well, not directly at least). But I think the aestetics (the messiah having butterfly wings) arn't a decent indication of who the true messiah is.

I see it like this: the Grail grants enormous powers, regardless of who wields it. However, only those who know how to use it (Sailor Moon, Mistress 9, the Messiah) will gain an actual benefit from it. It's kinda like the Ginzuishou story.

[Sailor Venus]

Manga...manga...I think there's only 1 messiah in the manga...gosh this is hard

But I know that the Anime messiahs are Super Sailor Moon and Mistress 9.

Dies Gaudii mentioned that there's no reference to the messiah of silence in the manga...only Saturn is referred to bring "ruin" not "silence". Yeshhh this is hard.

[moonprince804]

In the manga, I believe that Sailor Saturn is the messiah of silence and Serenity is the good messiah. The anime twists everything up, so I'm confusing when it comes to the anime.

[Sailor Venus]

Dies Gaudii's site:

Part Three: Twenty Entries

Rumor: “Sailor Saturn is the true Messiah of Silence. She is the one who will awaken and bring the Era of Silence.”

The title Messiah of Silence appears in the anime, but not in the manga.

In the anime, the Messiah of Silence is Hotaru when the monster that went into her body controls her body. The girl looks like Hotaru, but the real Hotaru’s mind is not in control of the body when the monster takes over. It is no wonder people are confused! Mistress 9, who is the monster in an older version of Hotaru’s body, is also the Messiah of Silence. The Messiah of Silence is not the good Hotaru or her sailor soldier form (Sailor Saturn).

Haruka, Michiru, and Setsuna think that Sailor Saturn is the Messiah of Silence in episode 119. Michiru has a vision of scythe-wielding woman, but she is not sure about the identification. Haruka then wonders whether Sailor Saturn is the Messiah of Silence. She says that they will have a chance to stop the destruction of the world if they stop Sailor Saturn from awakening.

Later in that same episode, Tomoe talks about how it is a perfect decision to make the person on the throne the Messiah of Silence. That person looks like Hotaru, and she is wearing an unusual outfit. Near the end of the episode, Tomoe mentions that Hotaru is Sailor Saturn, and nobody else could be more suitable as the Messiah of Silence. However, he does not claim that specifically Sailor Saturn, not the possessed and non-transformed Hotaru, is the Messiah of Silence. The real Hotaru and her sailor soldier form are entirely separate from the monster that has been placed into Hotaru’s body. The Bishjo Senshi Sr Mn S Nakayoshi Anime Album II uses the title Messiah of Silence to refer to Hotaru when she is sitting on the throne and wearing that Messiah of Silence outfit. Neither the real Hotaru nor her sailor soldier form is referred to as the Messiah of Silence when that monster is not somewhere in Hotaru’s body.

If the good Hotaru or her sailor soldier form were the real Messiah of Silence, then the good Hotaru or her sailor soldier form would want to help the Death Busters achieve their goal. However, it has been established that the Messiah of Silence is on the Death Busters’ side, but there is no indication that specifically the good Hotaru and her sailor soldier form are on the Death Busters’ side. In episode 125, Sailor Saturn goes off to attack Pharaoh 90 so that she can save the world from the Silence that Pharaoh 90 wants to bring about.

After the Messiah of Silence takes Chibi Moon’s Pure Heart in episode 123, the body that she is using (the body of Hotaru) changes into an older version of itself. The Messiah of Silence calls herself the “Messiah of Silence, Mistress 9.” Sailor Neptune tells us that Mistress 9 is not Sailor Saturn. Later, it becomes clear that the good Hotaru and Mistress 9 are two very different individuals. After Sailor Saturn finally awakens, nobody thinks of her as the Messiah of Silence.

The Bishjo Senshi Sr Mn Original Picture Collection III contains a section that says “This is one of the messiahs, Sailor Saturn.” That sentence is vague, and it does not say that Sailor Saturn is the Messiah of Silence. “Messiah of Silence” does not appear in that illustration book or in the manga books themselves, so to say that Sailor Saturn is the Messiah of Silence is to make an equivocation on “one of the messiahs.”

ANIME---------------------

Messiah of Silence: Mistress Nine

Proof?

[Sailor Venus]

I, honestly, just realized this. Previously, I thought that when Saturn uses her power she destroys the world no matter what...and all bad guys are destroyed. This isn't the case.

-----ANIME-----ONLY------

1)Saturn has enough power to destroy the world.
2)When Saturn uses her power, however, it most likely won't destroy the world.
3)Because Saturn, most likely, does not want to destroy the world.
4)She is able to direct her power at something, concentrate it somewhere. (Examples: Nehellenia) and not destroy the world. Only the enemy is being affected.
5)If an enemy, Galaxia, is strong enough to withstand the sheer power needed to destroy the world, then she survives.


Think of it like this. Jim says "I can break this brick with my fist". Then a bad guy, Tim, comes along and threatens Jim. Jim punches his lights out and the bad guy gets sent to the hospital. Were there any bricks broken? No. However, the sheer power to break a brick was directed to Tim to destroy him. Another bad guy, John, comes along and Jim tries to punch him. However John is very strong and withstands this power.


6)In conclusion, Saturn's power is limited.

[hawksgirl19]

sailorvenus2 said:

Manga...manga...I think there's only 1 messiah in the manga...gosh this is hard

But I know that the Anime messiahs are Super Sailor Moon and Mistress 9.

Dies Gaudii mentioned that there's no reference to the messiah of silence in the manga...only Saturn is referred to bring "ruin" not "silence". Yeshhh this is hard.

In the 3rd to last episode of the saga, Saturn speaks to Sailor Moon & tells her she is called the "Warrior of Ruin" because she has the power to destroy a planet, not that she is evil. The proof that Sailor Saturn is not the Messiah of Silence.