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Post by hawksgirl19 on Jan 3, 2006 23:57:53 GMT -5
Darien! They were meant to be together! And I still don't know s**t about this Seiya guy, and why Serena would dump Darien for him. You should watch Sailor Stars, that'll explain why Seiya is WAAAY better for Usagi than Mamoru is. |
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Post by Zyppora on Jan 6, 2006 14:50:26 GMT -5
You should watch Sailor Stars, that'll explain why Seiya is WAAAY better for Usagi than Mamoru is. Here's one reason: Mamoru throws weeds while Seiya actually fights. Besides, Seiya actually tries to date Usagi, right from the start. I'm sure you remember how Mamoru treated Usagi in the first saga. |
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Post by hawksgirl19 on Jan 7, 2006 15:55:34 GMT -5
So Mamoru decided to play a little hard to get. That's not necessarily a bad thing, especially since there's a definite age difference between the two of them. Granted, I don't know if anywhere else besides the US has that over 17 rule to date someone over 17 (& they have to be within 2 years or something till you're 18). Something like that...
I do agree Mamoru should actually fight instead of throwing Roses. Afterall, red roses are meant to be given to the one you love, not as a fighting weapon.
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Post by Suigin on Jan 7, 2006 18:25:54 GMT -5
Shouldn't Mamoru be able to fight anyways? I mean, it really hard to though a rose and get it to stick into concrete is it not.....
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xyie
Sailor Scout
Posts: 133
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Post by xyie on Jan 7, 2006 19:35:34 GMT -5
I actually just realized that most of the time Usagi is the one who always tried to save Mamoro and fight for their love. It seems to me that if Mamoro did'nt know that Usagi and him are destined with each other he wouldnt go after her.
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Post by yumecosmos on Feb 6, 2006 0:44:46 GMT -5
Then explain why he flirts with her before he knows that she's Princess Serenity. Explain why he never shows interest in Minako when Minako claims to be the princess. And once again I say: do you remember how Usagi treated Mamoru in the first season? Would you be inclined to date someone who acted like her?
And to all of you who say Mamoru can't fight: be fair, would you? Think of it this way. Mamoru has no awesome powers like Star Serious Laser. He's yet to bring down a youma on his own, and he knows it, that's why he's constantly worried that he's weak. But he fights and puts his life on the line anyway. Watch the SuperS movie. He gets the snot beat outa him, but he saves Usagi. Or the R movie, where he uses his body as a shield to save her. Or the scene in Stars where he goes up against Galaxia even though he knows he doesn't stand a chance. It's one thing to be brave when you're packing a supernova in your fingertip, its quite another to show that courage when all you have to fight with is a stick and a flower. And as Suigin said, it is no easy feat to get a rose stem to stick in concrete. Is that even possible? Either they are not ordinary roses (the more likely explaination, imo,) or Tux must have incredible upper body strength.
And in all fairness, Star Fighter has never killed a youma either. Of course, this is largely due to the "heroine-always-gets-the-finishing-blow" rule that the anime seems to have. (The manga's an entirely different story. In that version both Tux and Star Fighter have killed youma on their own.)
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Post by Zyppora on Feb 6, 2006 5:33:56 GMT -5
Then explain why he flirts with her before he knows that she's Princess Serenity. Explain why he never shows interest in Minako when Minako claims to be the princess. And once again I say: do you remember how Usagi treated Mamoru in the first season? Would you be inclined to date someone who acted like her? I think it's somethin subconscious that drew Mamoru to Usagi. How did Mamoru's alter ego Tuxedo Kamen know that Sailor Moon was Princess Serenity? And to all of you who say Mamoru can't fight: be fair, would you? Think of it this way. Mamoru has no awesome powers like Star Serious Laser. He's yet to bring down a youma on his own, and he knows it, that's why he's constantly worried that he's weak. But he fights and puts his life on the line anyway. Watch the SuperS movie. He gets the snot beat outa him, but he saves Usagi. But fails to save Chibi-Usa, who was actually the target. Or the R movie, where he uses his body as a shield to save her. Where he himself was the target. Or the scene in Stars where he goes up against Galaxia even though he knows he doesn't stand a chance. As far as I know, Mamoru had his star seed taken away at the airport (manga) and in the airplane (anime) even before Galaxia made her first strike (if you don't count summoning Nehelenia). He only revived after Galaxia was saved and the star seeds were returned to their respective owners. It's one thing to be brave when you're packing a supernova in your fingertip, its quite another to show that courage when all you have to fight with is a stick and a flower. And as Suigin said, it is no easy feat to get a rose stem to stick in concrete. Is that even possible? Either they are not ordinary roses (the more likely explaination, imo,) or Tux must have incredible upper body strength. And in all fairness, Star Fighter has never killed a youma either. Of course, this is largely due to the "heroine-always-gets-the-finishing-blow" rule that the anime seems to have. (The manga's an entirely different story. In that version both Tux and Star Fighter have killed youma on their own.) I say those roses arn't exactly normal. A rose would bounce or break if thrown against something as solid as concrete. |
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Post by Creshosk on Feb 6, 2006 10:58:26 GMT -5
Where he himself was the target. No he wasn't. Fiore did the long fingernail stab at Sailor Moon. Fiore would never have dreamed of hurting Mamoru. And then even when injured Mamoru pulls himself out and pegs the kisenian flower. . . |
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Post by Zyppora on Feb 6, 2006 13:31:45 GMT -5
Well, yea, but Fiore was after Mamoru in the first place. Same way [forgot his name] was after Chibi-Usa in the SuperS movie.
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Post by yumecosmos on Feb 6, 2006 19:27:20 GMT -5
I think it's somethin subconscious that drew Mamoru to Usagi. How did Mamoru's alter ego Tuxedo Kamen know that Sailor Moon was Princess Serenity? He didn't know until he saw her. And if before you make speculations about how his subconscious is drawn to her, why is it so hard to believe that he might actually like her for who she is? There's nothing that indicates to me that he only loves her because she's the princess. But fails to save Chibi-Usa, who was actually the target. Ok, the guy can't be everywhere at once. SailorMoon, who you claim does alll the fighting for him, didn't manage to save Chibiusa either. Anyway, we're talking about him protecting Usagi, not single-handedly saving the entire planet (because no one is allowed to do that except the main character.) After all, Seiya fails to save Princess Kakyuu, who he's really supposed to be protecting. But he does save Usagi, and that's worth noting. If it counts for Seiya, it should count for Mamoru. Where he himself was the target. Not true. Fiore came to Earth for Mamoru, but the attack was clearly aimed at SailorMoon. Fiore does not want to hurt Mamoru, cause he has a (kinda creepy stalker-ish) crush on him. That's why he's so shocked when he realizes he's injured Mamoru. And don't say that SailorMoon getting attacked is Mamoru's fault. He didn't do anything to make Fiore act that way. And by the way, Fiore is jealous because he can tell how much Mamoru loves Usagi (and thus not him, Fiore assumes.) He's angry at SailorMoon for supposedly turning Mamoru against him, even though, as he later discovers, that's not true at all. As far as I know, Mamoru had his star seed taken away at the airport (manga) and in the airplane (anime) even before Galaxia made her first strike (if you don't count summoning Nehelenia). He only revived after Galaxia was saved and the star seeds were returned to their respective owners. I could be wrong, but I definitely remember seeing a movie clip of Tux facing down Galaxia and getting his butt kicked. Maybe it's a dream or something. |
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Post by Zyppora on Feb 7, 2006 14:06:01 GMT -5
I think it's somethin subconscious that drew Mamoru to Usagi. How did Mamoru's alter ego Tuxedo Kamen know that Sailor Moon was Princess Serenity? He didn't know until he saw her. Strange. He DOES seem to transform into Tuxedo Kamen whenever Sailor Moon is in danger, whether he's with her or on the other side of town. And if before you make speculations about how his subconscious is drawn to her, why is it so hard to believe that he might actually like her for who she is? There's nothing that indicates to me that he only loves her because she's the princess. Ohw really? Mamoru seems to pick on Usagi CONSTANTLY. Only when he finds out that she's Sailor Moon, the picking stops. It's not proof by a mile, but it's definately an indication if you ask me. Ok, the guy can't be everywhere at once. SailorMoon, who you claim does alll the fighting for him, didn't manage to save Chibiusa either. Anyway, we're talking about him protecting Usagi, not single-handedly saving the entire planet (because no one is allowed to do that except the main character.) After all, Seiya fails to save Princess Kakyuu, who he's really supposed to be protecting. But he does save Usagi, and that's worth noting. If it counts for Seiya, it should count for Mamoru. Not true. Fiore came to Earth for Mamoru, but the attack was clearly aimed at SailorMoon. Fiore does not want to hurt Mamoru, cause he has a (kinda creepy stalker-ish) crush on him. That's why he's so shocked when he realizes he's injured Mamoru. And don't say that SailorMoon getting attacked is Mamoru's fault. He didn't do anything to make Fiore act that way. And by the way, Fiore is jealous because he can tell how much Mamoru loves Usagi (and thus not him, Fiore assumes.) He's angry at SailorMoon for supposedly turning Mamoru against him, even though, as he later discovers, that's not true at all. Alright, let me put it this way then: Seiya manages to do exactly the same as Mamoru (and more, but who's keeping scores) WITHOUT getting banged up. As far as I know, Mamoru had his star seed taken away at the airport (manga) and in the airplane (anime) even before Galaxia made her first strike (if you don't count summoning Nehelenia). He only revived after Galaxia was saved and the star seeds were returned to their respective owners. I could be wrong, but I definitely remember seeing a movie clip of Tux facing down Galaxia and getting his butt kicked. Maybe it's a dream or something. Well, as far as I can remember, that's not canon. Mamoru never even got to know what the evil Galaxia looks like. |
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Post by yumecosmos on Feb 7, 2006 22:33:45 GMT -5
Yes, he does, but first of all it happens unconsciously, and afterward Mamoru doesn't completely remember it. Second, this only proves that Tux "knows" that Usagi is Sailor Moon, and can sense that she's in danger. The other senshi know that too, but nobody knows that she's the princess. And that transformation could be just a built-in reaction to Sailor Moon's transformation. Since he doesn't seem to be consciously doing it Of course Mamoru's attitude toward Usagi changes once they start dating. Granted, they're only seriously dating after he finds out she's the princess, but he liked her beforehand. Look at the way he acts toward her right before he leaves to confront Zoisite (although unfortunately I'm having to go by the dub here.) Right before he leaves for a duel in which he knows he might die, he makes an effort to be nice to Usagi... before he knows that she's Sailor Moon. If you ask me, that proves that he teases Usagi because he likes her. If he didn't like her, he would just avoid her, not keep coming back for more. And Usagi, for her part, is genuinely worried when she realizes he's hurt. Seiya and Mamoru have similar track records in battle, and that's exactly my point. Yes, Seiya doesn't get beat up as much, but they both get the job done. And that's credit to Mamoru's courage. Like I said, Seiya's powers are clearly better than Tuxedo Kamen's (considering that Tux lacks ANY offensive powers in the anime.) But in spite of that, Tuxedo Kamen manages to protect Usagi. This is kind of like the way people say that Chibimoon is a bad senshi. Chibimoon is mentally and emotionally a much better soldier than Sailor Moon. She's more mature and level-headed, but she's stuck with crappy powers so everyone thinks she sucks. And yet she comes through when it counts, and people seem to forget that. But I digress.  Here are some screencaps from the clip I mentioned. If they're not real, they are certainly a very good imitiation. And in that clip, Tuxedo Kamen's last word is "Usako." Not "Serenity," not "Sailor Moon," but Usako. Notice how, in the most desperate situations, he always says Usagi's name. |
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Post by Zyppora on Feb 8, 2006 6:51:13 GMT -5
Yes, he does, but first of all it happens unconsciously, and afterward Mamoru doesn't completely remember it. Second, this only proves that Tux "knows" that Usagi is Sailor Moon, and can sense that she's in danger. The other senshi know that too, but nobody knows that she's the princess. And that transformation could be just a built-in reaction to Sailor Moon's transformation. Since he doesn't seem to be consciously doing it Subconsciously, unconsciously. How is this different from agreeing with what I claimed in the first place? And are you saying that the connection Tuxedo Kamen - Sailor Moon is entirely different from Prince Endymion - Princess Serenity? Sorry, but I refuse to believe that. It's too synchronised to be coincidence. Of course Mamoru's attitude toward Usagi changes once they start dating. Granted, they're only seriously dating after he finds out she's the princess, but he liked her beforehand. Look at the way he acts toward her right before he leaves to confront Zoisite (although unfortunately I'm having to go by the dub here.) Right before he leaves for a duel in which he knows he might die, he makes an effort to be nice to Usagi... before he knows that she's Sailor Moon. If you ask me, that proves that he teases Usagi because he likes her. If he didn't like her, he would just avoid her, not keep coming back for more. And Usagi, for her part, is genuinely worried when she realizes he's hurt. Wasn't he confronting Zoicite in that large evil-drenched building where he joined Usagi in a one-way trip in the elevators? Didn't they discover each other's identities at THAT exact point? And wasn't THAT the point upon which they started liking each other? Correct me if I'm wrong here btw, and don't take (serious) offence if I am. I'm running off my memories of the sub. Seiya and Mamoru have similar track records in battle, and that's exactly my point. Yes, Seiya doesn't get beat up as much, but they both get the job done. And that's credit to Mamoru's courage. Like I said, Seiya's powers are clearly better than Tuxedo Kamen's (considering that Tux lacks ANY offensive powers in the anime.) But in spite of that, Tuxedo Kamen manages to protect Usagi. This is kind of like the way people say that Chibimoon is a bad senshi. Chibimoon is mentally and emotionally a much better soldier than Sailor Moon. She's more mature and level-headed, but she's stuck with crappy powers so everyone thinks she sucks. And yet she comes through when it counts, and people seem to forget that. But I digress. I gotta give you that much. Here are some screencaps from the clip I mentioned. If they're not real, they are certainly a very good imitiation. And in that clip, Tuxedo Kamen's last word is "Usako." Not "Serenity," not "Sailor Moon," but Usako. Notice how, in the most desperate situations, he always says Usagi's name. To be honest, I don't remember seeing anything like that, but again, running off memories of when I saw the saga, which has been awhile. |
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Post by yumecosmos on Feb 8, 2006 16:04:59 GMT -5
What I'm saying is that Tux unconsciously knowing that Usagi is SailorMoon has nothing to do with Mamoru liking her. In the episode where their identities are revealed, Mamoru runs into Usagi on the street before he goes off to face Zoicite.
The transcript of the dub episode reads:
Serena: There's Darien!
There's a bee on your back! *smack* It's gone now.
Darien: Thank you. I hate bees. I appreciate it, meatballhead.
Serena: Stop calling me that. I get enough from Raye. I don't need it from you.
Darien: I won't say it anymore. I have to go! Bye, Serena!
Serena: Darien was nice to me! What's this? This is blood! He's hurt; must be bad! He's not himself. I'll follow him to see if he's all right.
Mamoru obviously liked Usagi before. He teased her constantly, but when he realized it might be the last time he'd talk to her, he was nice. Although it does seem that Usagi doesn't realize that he actually likes her, since she's so surprised when he's nice to her. Mamoru has trouble expressing his feelings at first, but that doesn't mean he doesn't love her.
I think that the claim that Mamoru is unromantic or doesn't love Usagi arises from the fact that he's not as open about his feelings as Seiya is. He loves her just as much as Seiya does, but he doesn't broadcast it to the world. Instead he shows it quietly, and he's there when she needs him most. If you want to say that that makes Seiya more deserving of Usagi, fine. In the end, though, relationships aren't about who deserves who. Mamoru loves Usagi, and Usagi loves Mamoru, and that's that. They work together, no matter when or where.
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Post by The Godess of Destruction on Feb 14, 2006 9:49:32 GMT -5
i think mamoru love her is just that when he know she is the princess and all the memories of ther live in the silver millenium he act like he love her more so mi point is he change his way to be with usagui when he now the true identity of usagui. Then he act like he always love her and i think that before he know the true he like her for who she is.
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