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Post by yumecosmos on May 15, 2007 23:34:13 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure it's Ayakashi Sisters, aka Weird Sisters, which is a fairly accurate translation. Kunzite to Malachite was rather nonsensical though. I think it was because of a copyright issue or something. Maybe. And I thought Queen Metallia was the same... It's the fans that started calling her "Queen Metallica" ><; A couple that really bug me are Neflite and Jedite. Somebody apparently didn't catch on to the whole "rocks" theme. But by far the stupidest name change of all time: Princess Serena and Prince Darien, with the same names as their present-day counterparts. I mean, come on. SailorMoon can't be that dumb >.>; (Then again, not one of them batted an eye when Sailor Venus claimed to be the moon princess... but oh well.)
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Post by Ayen on May 16, 2007 1:11:23 GMT -5
Setsuna is just a better name... I'll never understood why they bother to give the main characters more American names when their suppose to be in Japan to begin with and yet leaves Saturn and the bad guys name alone...... The bad guys names were changed too actually. Think Asakiri sisters (is that the correct name?) for example, Black Lady, or Kunzite or Queen Metallia. I think Black Lady was change because of people being offended by a white woman being called black lady.
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Post by Zyppora on May 16, 2007 2:35:31 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure it's Ayakashi Sisters, aka Weird Sisters, which is a fairly accurate translation. Kunzite to Malachite was rather nonsensical though. I think it was because of a copyright issue or something. Maybe. And I thought Queen Metallia was the same... It's the fans that started calling her "Queen Metallica" ><; Translation or not, we're talking about a name here. Mizuno Ami wasn't dubbed to Ami of Water now was it? And Queen Metallia became the Negaforce. A couple that really bug me are Neflite and Jedite. Somebody apparently didn't catch on to the whole "rocks" theme. But by far the stupidest name change of all time: Princess Serena and Prince Darien, with the same names as their present-day counterparts. I mean, come on. SailorMoon can't be that dumb >.>; (Then again, not one of them batted an eye when Sailor Venus claimed to be the moon princess... but oh well.) Yea, having Serena and Darien the same names was dumb. I think Cresh explained elsewhere that there's a scene where Darien was brainwashed and Serena tries to get him to come around and he says 'Darien? Never heard of him. I'm Prince Darien' or somethin like that
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Post by nekosenshi on May 26, 2007 16:43:13 GMT -5
All dub names are stupid. I actually hate Serena, Darien and Rini more than I hate Trista. And it is funny that in a dubbed episode 'Serena' calls 'Darien' 'Darien' and he doesn't know that's his name. No, now his name is PRINCE Darien! OMG, what a difference! LMAO.
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Post by yumecosmos on May 26, 2007 22:27:46 GMT -5
Ah, I forgot about the "Negaforce." I could've sworn they called her Metallia at some point... maybe not.
In the case of the Ayakashi sisters I think translating the name made sense because otherwise people might not catch the reference to the real "Weird Sisters" aka the norns/fates. It's about like saying Illusion Silver Crystal instead of Maboroshi no Ginzuishou, or Princess Fireball instead of Princess Kakyuu. Yes, it's a name, but in this case at least it made a little bit of sense to translate it that way.
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Post by Zyppora on May 28, 2007 4:35:22 GMT -5
Hmmz, reference to norns? I had to look that one up, and I'd like to consider myself moderately well-informed on general knowledge like that. Taking that in mind, as well as the fact that the show was dubbed for children, I doubt ANYONE would have caught up on the reference.
Besides that, the reference is distorted in too many ways. There were many norns, but only three are important/popular/well-known. There are four Ayakashi Sisters. The norns were called Urd, Belldandy and Skuld (as in Ah My Goddess), who each represent the past, present and future (not sure who represents what). How does that relate to the Ayakashi Sisters, other than the name of the group?
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Post by yumecosmos on May 29, 2007 10:52:26 GMT -5
It wouldn't be the first time they made a reference that made no sense and/or that almost no one understood. For example, the Maenads bear almost no resemblence to the real Maenads, who were associated with Bacchus, not Helios. Artemis was a girl--Minako even noticed and made fun of him for his name. And what about Galaxia's attack, "Galactica Super String." How many junior high kids have even heard of superstring theory? How many will know that Cooan, Bertheir, Petz, and Calaveras are named after minerals? (That said, the dub names for them were quite stupid -_-; ) If there are few kids who know what the Weird Sisters are, there are fewer who know what the Weird Sisters are and speak Japanese. I can see the argument that it's a name, but I don't think it could hurt anything to translate it. (BTW, isn't it "Verdandi?" )
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Post by Zyppora on May 29, 2007 13:01:36 GMT -5
I noticed the Artemis blooper too, but shrugged it off. Mars was the god of war, he had nothing to do with passion. Sailor Mars is a girl And on the Verdandi thing, I believe the pronunciation faces the same problems as things like Sailor Venus does, V's and L's don't really get pronounced as V's and L's (try pronouncing Sailor Venus when you know the V is half pronounced as a P ). One thing that bugs me about the Weird Sister reference though, is that it doesn't follow the consistency of the other references in Sailor Moon at ALL. We know Takeuchi-sensei used a LOT of references from Greek/Roman mythology, and also quite a few from Eastern mythology, and references to gemstones and minerals are abundant. However the Weird Sisters are a references to Norse mythology (the ONLY reference to Norse mythology?). Why?
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Post by yumecosmos on May 30, 2007 0:07:34 GMT -5
Verdandi and Belldandy would both be written "be-ru-da-n-de(i)." I was just pointing out that Verdandi is the real name, whereas I think Belldandy is either a fan mispronunciation or a pun in Ah My Goddess. And I'm pretty sure V usually becomes B.
Nehellenia may be a reference to a Teutonic goddess, also the only reference of its kind. (Though she might also be named after a rock.) Sailor Mau's name is Egyptian, and Sailor Chuu is just onomatopoeia. The "Holy Grail" is Christian and/or Arthurian, one of only a few. The Starlights and Kakyuu are either named after stellar phenomena or vague references to Hindu gods, also the only of their kind. Sure, most of them are Greek or Roman, but we know she did occasionally use others. I think it's more likely than there just being a group randomly called the Weird Sisters. Plus, they were often involved with fate, prophecies, or chanelling.
...Yay off topic!
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Post by Zyppora on May 30, 2007 2:07:24 GMT -5
Hmmz, you're right actually. I also seem to remember that Neptune's mirror, Uranus' sword and Pluto's garnet orb (which are the three attributes to make the Grail appear) are the three most valuable treasures? Representing beauty, strength and wealth or something, not sure about that. On a sidenote, wasn't it the dub that called it the Holy Grail? The name 'chalice' seems to come to mind. Not sure on this one. And it's offtopic but I think it's pretty good to brainstorm/discuss stuff like this because it does contribute And it somewhat touches the subject.
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Post by yumecosmos on May 30, 2007 9:46:42 GMT -5
The manga, at least, calls it the Densetsu no Seihai, which translates roughly to Legendary Holy Grail. The dub called it the Purity Chalice, probably because they didnt' want to offend anyone by making religious references--same reason they shied away from the term "Dark Messiah." The Japanese version does later call it the Moon Chalice when SailorMoon summons it at the end of the S arc. However, the katakana for "Moon Chalice" are given as the reading for the kanji "Densetsu no Seihai". When the grail reappears during the fifth arc as Eternal SailorMoon's transformation item, it is again called the Densetsu no Seihai or just Seihai.
I think you're right, the three talismans are supposed to be the three sacred treasures of Japan. I didn't know that's what they represented. (I thought they were Power, Wisdom, and Courage... maybe I'm thinking of something else. X3 ) In the manga they don't summon the Holy Grail, they summon SailorSaturn. The grail just kind of appeared... However, they do start shining and send some of their power to help form the grail, along with the inner senshi and Tux. I don't know how the anime went, never saw the whole season ^^;
Actually the manga gets very confusing because there are two holy grails, one for Moon and one for Chibimoon (Chibimoon goes super at the end of the third season to fight Mistress 9.) So I'm not sure if they're both the Moon Chalice, or if one is the Holy Grail and one is the Moon Chalice, or if they're both Holy Grails but only Moon's is the Moon Chalice. Maybe Chibimoon's is the Chibimoon Chalice. @_@
I admit that the whole Ayakashi sisters=norns argument is probably fan speculation, and has no canon confirmation. It might have been better left untranslated. But in this case I don't think it hurt the overall storyline much, unlike the Serena/Princess Serena thing, or calling the Black Moon the Negamoon, making it seem like they were associated with the Dark Kingdom.
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Post by Zyppora on May 30, 2007 11:32:31 GMT -5
Well, Nega could easily be written off to be an abbreviation of 'negative', and to be used to indicate that being affiliated to these organisations is generally just a bad thing Calling the Ayakashi Sisters 'Weird Sisters' will definately not make kids relate them to the Wyrd Sisters from Norse mythology, but instead associate it with the modern slang word 'weird', meaning strange. And to be honest, I didn't find them all that strange, especially considering in the anime, they do all kinds of normal-girly-stuff, like fuss over unrequited loves and squeal over makeup 'n stuff On the Chalice thing, now I understand where the second Chalice for Chibi Moon in Another Story comes from ^_^ the manga apparently I noticed that she also had one (and they both appear in the itemlist in the game, but the first one can only be used by Moon and the second only by Chibi Moon), but couldn't find any references to that in the anime, contrary to the Ginzuishou (which, if I do remember correctly, was passed on from Usagi to Chibi-Usa (or did she get a separate one, being the firstborn to the bearer of the Ginzuishou?), resulting in two Ginzuishou(s?) existing in the 20th century).
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Post by yumecosmos on May 30, 2007 17:17:29 GMT -5
Actually, I'm pretty sure in the manga version Chibimoon has her own, separate ginzuishou. If you track the various ginzuishou in act 23 (Black Moon arc, the act where Pluto dies), you can see that Chibimoon probably has her own.
((Spoiler warning!))
Prince Demand is holding SailorMoon's ginzuishou from her brooch and Neo Queen Serenity's, the one that Chibiusa stole. He is about to touch them together, which will somehow cause the universe to explode because it creates a time paradox. Pluto stops him and they get the crystals back. Usagi shows Pluto both crystals, and hands one, presumably the future ginzuishou, to Venus. Pluto dies, and Black Lady bursts into tears. She turns back into Chibiusa, and one of her tears becomes a ginzuishou. She turns into Chibimoon. Then SailorMoon uses her own (20th century) ginzuishou to transform. Now a few pages later, we see that Venus is still holding Neo Queen Serenity's ginzuishou. Unless we are to believe that Chibimoon for some reason detransformed, handed her crystal back to Venus, and then took it back and re-transformed a few panels later, Chibimoon must have a third one--her own. Anyway, if it wasn't her own, she and Moon would constantly be risking destroying the world by having the two ginzuishou close to one another. And it's previously been shown that only one copy of the ginzuishou can work in a given time period, which is why Moon's powers won't work when they go to the 30th century. (The only reason they do work later on is because Neo Queen Serenity lends her the power of the 30th century crystal.) Chibimoon's powers would only work in the 20th century if they came from a different crystal.
In the anime, however, there is no evidence of this. For all I can see, Chibimoon does indeed use the future ginzuishou, the same one she stole from the queen. This begs the question of how the queen is defending the city while Chibimoon is away, but oh well...
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Post by Zyppora on May 31, 2007 1:57:16 GMT -5
In the anime it is shown that Neo Queen Serenity is unconscious and encased in ice/crystal and the four Inner Senshi are protecting her with a large shield (I think it was). And it kind of makes sense that only one Ginzuishou works when there's two around. After all, having the power to destroy the world is enough, having two times that power ... what purpose does that serve?
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